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Home >> World-issues >> Time to get tough with Iran
18.02.2007, 00:54 quote
There is no insight into how US treats prisoner of war. - Sorry they have been renamed enemy combatants and as such are not entitled to legal representation or a civil trial, subjects neither to the Geneva Conventions nor to the purview of the US civilian court system.
Guantanamo, located on Cuban territory, it is the legal equivalent of outer space, unlike military bases on US territories. These other locations were ruled out as prison sites because they fall under the jurisdiction of the often-liberal Ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals.
In essence, they don't exist as human beings or legal, human entities.
Someones brother or father is whisked away across the globe, has a secret trial and a secret sentence. Diplock courts anyone? US was contemplating Camp X-ray death chambers, I don't know if they went though with it.
Since Human Rights organisations have been refused access to detainees we don't know how they are being treated. The only example of an American prisoner camp we have is Abu Ghraib and frankly, the Pentagon acknowledges that 25 men have died while in the hands of US forces. Now that reports has become public, the US Army has revealed investigations into some of its findings, including charges that Iraqi inmates were sodomized by soldiers.
18.02.2007, 18:39 quote
| ChiefOHara wrote: |
| Your right in everything except that south vietnam wasn't a democracy. The leader was an anti- soviet ally, nothing more. In that case the US backed the wrong horse. |
Oh and America does respect prisoners of wars' rights. It only imprisons people in places like Gautamau Bay who are terrorists and therefore unlawful combatants as the Geneva Convention only applies to regular soldiers not to self apointed militas and terrorists.
18.02.2007, 18:44 quote
Ok...now I know what you mean by "US aggression"...I though you were worrying about"people becoming aggressive against the USA"
18.02.2007, 23:54 quote
| stonecastle wrote: |
| Oh and America does respect prisoners of wars' rights. It only imprisons people in places like Gautamau Bay who are terrorists and therefore unlawful combatants as the Geneva Convention only applies to regular soldiers not to self apointed militas and terrorists. |
Interesting, who ARE terrorists.
Here are a couple of names of of prisoners released from Guantanamo, held for years and then released without charge. If they are not terrorists according to US or UK law, surely they can't be terrorists in your eyes, can they?
Mamdouh Habib
Martin Mubanga
Until they have been convicted in a court of justice they cannot be classified as terrorists (this is a judicial term), they can only be suspects.
Problem is, Stoney, that they won't see a trial.
This is very much like internment in Northern Ireland some twenty years ago, prisoners held in limbo indefinitely without trial .
19.02.2007, 06:55 quote
Alleged terrorists in Guantanamo, until they are released - maybe.
Here having a breath of fresh air in the yard before it's time for lunch.
19.02.2007, 11:38 quote
Bush also won't see any trial.....although he should be taken to Den Hague.
The problem: The USA is one of the few countries who refused to sign the contract...so the USA can commit war crimes without that anything happens....
And starting a war is illegal - it is only allowed to protect yourself or to help other countries that are invaded....starting a war itself is a crime and George Bush is a criminal.
19.02.2007, 14:01 quote
lmao SC, the US are a VERY aggresive nation, they are so busy trying to police the entire world and tbh, it's not their f*cking job.
Simple as that to be honest.
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20.02.2007, 04:19 quote
| Aradon wrote: |
| lmao SC, the US are a VERY aggresive nation, they are so busy trying to police the entire world and tbh, it's not their f*cking job.
Simple as that to be honest. |
Couldn't agree more.....
20.02.2007, 10:43 quote
I understand that US went to war over being attacked back in 2001 - to save face. However, focus shifted rapidly from Bin laden in Afghanistan to Oil in Iraq. And cleaning up their old Middle East messes.
Most unfortunately for the Arabs cleaning means killing everyone.
On FBI's most wanted list it's not even claimed Bin Laden has anything to do with WTC. http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
The clandestine U.S. commandos whose job is to capture or kill Osama bin Laden have not received a credible lead in more than two years.
20.02.2007, 14:20 quote
Sure Its commonly known that one of the policys of the neo-con republican party was to deal with saddamn hussein. It was briefly mentioned in their pre-election build up to the gore bush election.
Also stone castle, i don't care what you classify the detainees as. You DONT abuse them sexually, expose them to sensory deprivation (it brings on severe mental health problems), or detain them for years without a shred of evidence. The Guatanamo and Abu Gharib scandals in my opinion are an absolute disgrace.
02.03.2007, 08:51 quote
Remember that infamous memo months before the invasion of Iraq? Tony Blair sent it to his closest allies after meeting with US intelligence officials. It was leaked eventually and basically said that the Americans wanted to depose Saddam Hussain and were arranging a framework of evidence (a dossier anyone?) around this. Remember also that this was the exact same time when Blair, Bush et all were adamant that the reason for war would be WMDs and not regime change.
It's funny how supporters of the war will claim that 'we needed to get rid of saddam, he was a very bad man, this is why we went to war'. This categorically was NOT why we went to war, not according to Bush and Blair. The other excuse that people use when acccounting for the lack of WMDs is that there was an intelligence FAILURE. Again this isnt true, the intelligence that was concocted served it's purpose perfectly. It would only have been a failure if it was ever intended to be the truth.
We've all watched America start wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, watched them ignore Darfur and look the other way in Palestine/Lebanon, watched all the lies first being concocted and then unravelled. Still there are people like the ones in this thread who back the US on the basis of moral superiority and are happy for them to continue on with their misadventures.
02.03.2007, 16:40 quote
| Tabletop wrote: |
|
Until they have been convicted in a court of justice they cannot be classified as terrorists (this is a judicial term), they can only be suspects. |
Isnt a terrorist by his actions someone who terrorises people (makes them very, very frightened)? You dont have to be judged in a law court to be legally classified as someone who scares people. You are judged in a law court to prove you have committed crimes, not that you scare people. Just a thought there.
Now based on that and my own thoughts, the biggest terrorists in the country are the media and the governemt, and not a bloke in London - Im not scared of him. The government want us to be scared that bad stuff is going to happen so that they can pass legislation to control the population easier ('Anti-terrorist laws', ID cards, Limiting imigration (without being seen as racist), Chip and pin... a whole load of laws).
The news papers want us to be scared so that they can sell more and make more money. If a bloke in london wants to blow people up he wants people to go about their daily routine so that he has a bigger impact and more news to get his point accross, he isnt there to scare people. So who is the terrorist?
02.03.2007, 19:00 quote
| DrBrightside wrote: |
| Remember that infamous memo months before the invasion of Iraq? Tony Blair sent it to his closest allies after meeting with US intelligence officials. It was leaked eventually and basically said that the Americans wanted to depose Saddam Hussain and were arranging a framework of evidence (a dossier anyone?) around this. Remember also that this was the exact same time when Blair, Bush et all were adamant that the reason for war would be WMDs and not regime change.
It's funny how supporters of the war will claim that 'we needed to get rid of saddam, he was a very bad man, this is why we went to war'. This categorically was NOT why we went to war, not according to Bush and Blair. The other excuse that people use when acccounting for the lack of WMDs is that there was an intelligence FAILURE. Again this isnt true, the intelligence that was concocted served it's purpose perfectly. It would only have been a failure if it was ever intended to be the truth. We've all watched America start wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, watched them ignore Darfur and look the other way in Palestine/Lebanon, watched all the lies first being concocted and then unravelled. Still there are people like the ones in this thread who back the US on the basis of moral superiority and are happy for them to continue on with their misadventures. |

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02.03.2007, 23:22 quote
Yeah, very good.
1984 by George Orwell is a great book, it really does make valid points that apply today. The concept of our governments watching us, the idea of governments keeping their countries in a perpetual state of war (or at least the illusion of war). In the book, the enemies and allies are constantly changing, the media is used as a weapon of fear and control. Sound familiar?
I really do hope that we don't make the same mistakes again but just remember, this country voted Tony Blair and his government back into power after the mess in Iraq. There is a hardcore of, lets face it, idiots who see all that goes on, that know lies when they see them, but still think he's a 'decent bloke'.
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