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Home >> World-issues >> Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

01.12.2008, 14:08 quote

rocketgirl

^^^ what 206bones said.

Also, the only time I have ever known of anyone being demanded to take a drugs test for work purposes is that to be under the influence of drugs would be dangerous for their work eg lorry drivers.
I have to say also having worked with drug addicts, you are very naive if you think the only people who have a drug addiction are social security benefitters, I've known a bank manager on heroin (weekend recreation), an alcoholic lawyer dying from a pickled liver but still working and others as well as JSA recipients picking up their giro in a cannabis induced haze etc.
Some people fund their habits out of their earned cash.
Tell me something, do you ever go out and get pissed? Smoke a bit of weed now and again?
And can you honestly say that you do not owe one single penny on a credit card or have a bank overdraft?
Actually, no dont tell me the answer to that because I really dont need to know, but pause for thought over that one.
If you owe nothing and get every single thing you own or consume with the cash in your pocket that you earned then I take my hat of to you, well done.

It also just occurred to me that randomly testing benefit recipients for illegal drug use smacks of treating each and every one as a potential and possible social security scrounging druggie.


Oh and by the way - as to weeding out the druggies - News flash, if a person is registered with their doctor as having an alcohol or drug addiction, they can get extra disability allowances, permanently written off work as 'chronically sick' and get help in other ways ie free prescription drugs, medical help, go the top of most councils housing waiting lists - but the trade-off is that often they end up with a life threatening illness or two and never really become well enough to work full-time ever again anyway.
Before anyone says "its their own choice, serves them right" etc. please remember until you walk in someone else's shoes its impossible to judge where the blame lies.
Compassion goes alot further than criticism.

 

01.12.2008, 19:52 quote

rocketgirl

I stand by what I said.
Chronic drug users are most often registered with their doctor and have a plethora of social and medical workers to fight their corner when the shit hits the fan or they need/want something.
I am defending no one.
Its a vicious circle that wont get stopped until the Manufacturers of the drugs (cartels in colombia, crack factories in the uk etc.) are stamped out - rid the world of the drug, there will no longer be any drug addicts.
Simple mathematics that will simply never happen!
You dont need to do random drug testing on benefit recipients, just make the doctor hand over his patients' medical records.
Of course there are plenty more who are not registered with their doctor, but they are not the ones sapping the nhs.
Rehab success rate is something like 10%.
Take their kids off them til they get clean?
Do you have any idea how many drug addicts actually make any effort to get their kids back once they are in care?
The harsh reality is that they then suddenly dont have this little person draining their money and emotions - the average hardened drug addict lives for his or her next fix, a child isnt exactly top of their priority list. The way they care for the poor little sods (or lack of care) is testimony to that.
And if you take the child away, well....who do you think pays the foster parent their wage (yes you get a wage for fostering, they call it a grant or summat, but wage it is) and the running costs of council run childrens homes?
Personally I think 'weeding out druggies', stamping down on the users and making them suffer - by taking away their children, benefits etc. - is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
This govt should have gotten tough on drug use about half a century ago, and now its too late.
We live with the consequences of liberalism and human rights and personal choices.

 

01.12.2008, 21:35 quote

rocketgirl

CMISO wrote:
No, I have no idea how many make that effort but that isn't the point for me.

That lack of care is a sound reason to take them away surely.


I agree. But the point I was making was it cant be as a punishment or incentive to the drug addict to take their child away. You are punishing the poor kids too. And its using tax payers money, which is what scott was on upon.
Quite often by the time the parent has come to the decision that they want to quit the drugs they do think (or are suggested) that the child would be better off with someone else...and quite frankly, no one can quit a habit like that 'for someone elses sake', it has to be for their own for it to have a chance.
A child as young as 4 yrs old is deemed ok at home if there is bread, or other kind of simple food to help itself too while its parents are stoned/blind drunk etc.
Its only when the child is presented to the right people ie school teachers, hospitals etc. as undernourished or being harmed in some way that action takes place.
This country seems to have no preventative laws, just laws to deal with the outcome of such tragic situations.
I have a neighbor who is a known drug addict and alcoholic, she has a boy of 5 yrs old, the social worker will visit the home in a cloud of cannabis smoke and talk with her half-lying on her sofa drunk and drugs and yet as long as the boy has no visible bruises, he seems chatty and happy and not underweight (they weigh him every week) nothing is done to change the situation. And they look in her fridge for snacks.
It makes me mad. When that boy ends up hurt or something then they will step in, til then his mother has 'rights' and 'she needs help'.
A crazy world.
I agree that kids should be taken away from *anyone* showing that they are incapable of taking care of their child, but it rarely happens, until its too late.
In fact, in an ideal world it would be best to encourage drug users not to have kids in the first place, or not start taking drugs if they already have kids.
Sadly, Utopia this world is not.

 

01.12.2008, 23:44 quote

rocketgirl

In some ways, we are far too soft in this country. Some countries (china for instance I believe) if you are caught being a drug addict you get thrown in a cell and made to go cold turkey.
You either kick the habit or you die, simple as.
Here, you are offered rehab if you want it, if you dont, we continue giving free health care and benefits to live on and even if you do decide to go to rehab you have a very slim chance of successfully staying off the drugs, and often spend the rest of your life unemployed and sick anyway with chronic liver disease etc.
On the other hand, if we werent as 'soft' as we are compared to some hard-line countries, we'd have a bad human rights record for the rest of the world to sneer at us for...so we cant win whatever really!
I hate drugs and what it does to people.
In many ways it affects us all.
Back to topic, I still think randomly testing benefit recipients (or all of them) would be a total waste of time and yet more money, because it would achieve nowt in the long run as long as there is a market for illegal drugs they are here to stay I'm afraid.

 

02.12.2008, 12:47 quote

rocketgirl

u4ric wrote:
redelicious wrote:

What's GBL?


This video was made by my friends at one my favourite clubs:
http://current.com/items/89043768/deadly_club_drug.htm


Thats a very good unbiased video.
Dont suppose your mate's done one on PCP by any chance?

 

02.12.2008, 13:40 quote

rocketgirl

Ah ok. I asked because I have strong suspicions about something.....I wont go into details here, but could I please PM you? You seem quite knowledgeable about these things, and I need some proper info. Websites dont give the info I am looking for.

 

02.12.2008, 17:50 quote

rocketgirl

Why, thankee 206bones, that's made my day! Very Happy

And u4ric I've not yet been able to access the main site to send you a pm, keeps freezing up my computer. Confused

 

18.10.2011, 02:45 quote

willysgpin

oooo yea thats the best idea yet and if they flunk it no money for them !!!!!

 
 
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