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28.11.2008, 11:20 quote

mimib
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: Germany, ,
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Not only because of stories like the one shown on youtube but the fact in general that money rules our health systems you just don't want to become sick.

My uncle died this summer of cancer and it was clear that he had only weeks/days left, but they couldn't help scheduling an absolutly pointless operation at his heart one week before he died.

My brother has a very rare fatal genetic disease. He is very well organised and takes part at every clinical trial as a guinea pig, but most of the money coming for these studies are from fundraising. The pharmaceutical industrie is just not interested in a non profit (as this disorder is so rare) undertaking. As simple as that!

 

28.11.2008, 11:50 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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being sick isnt for the poor mimi. as zoop says, its money before health.. brings me back to this michael moore documentary.. and dont worry about his political views on this one, only minimal undertones of his leftism

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=sicko&emb=0&aq=f#

i implore u to watch it

 

28.11.2008, 13:28 quote

mimib
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: Germany, ,
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Thanks BBones for the link, surely I will watch it.

Just to get that straigh my point was that it's money before health too! The two examples I gave above have been / are well insured.

A pointless operation performed only because it brings money from the insurance company but no benefit to the patient.

And the example of my brother shows that the pharmaceutical industrie isn't spending any money on research if it is not likely to make profit.

 

28.11.2008, 13:42 quote

cmiso

Well that's what happens when medicine is a business. The companies have their shareholders (and hence their profits) as their first consideration as in any other business.

 

28.11.2008, 13:43 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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sorry mimi the "poor" was more in a metaphorical sense, as in the poor souls without a clue.. i wish your brother well!!!

 

28.11.2008, 14:11 quote

mimib
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: Germany, ,
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bbones wrote:
sorry mimi the "poor" was more in a metaphorical sense, as in the poor souls without a clue.. i wish your brother well!!!


Arrrr.... One day my English will get me into trouble... I see BBones and thanks for your sympathy

 

28.11.2008, 14:44 quote

u4ric
u4ric Joined: 04 Sep 2008 Posts: 297 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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bbones wrote:
Quote:
misdiagnosis is quite common these days so I guess it could quite easily happen



man we ar talkin about the most debilitating disease causing virus here and with all the modern tech and whatnots, u would think much care is taken to handle the shit? it aint no sodding misdiagnosis bullshit! quite easily happen? lol man ok lets say the "misdiagnosis" did happen.. how the flippin heck did it actually reach a production line -> pharmacy -> human blood stream.. i believe this is a major drug company we are talknin about here and not some quacky confederate?! as a tax payer and potential end user, shouldnt u be worried about the rigorous tests that constitute the drug trade, rather than flimsily state that "it coud quite easily happen" ..lol common man


If you read the quote in my previous post it explains that these drugs were created at a time before HIV was screened in patients/blood samples. Ok so not strictly misdiagnosis but rather a late reaction to a new threat.

Once again I want to stress, I am not defending the actions of the company, just explaining how it might possibly have happened.

If you think about it theoretically it could easily happen again. Like the program Survivors on the BBC at the moment, it dosn't take long for a disease to mutate. Its possible that I disease could mutate into an undetectable strain and once again be used in blood samples by pharmaceutical company's or maybe even mutate for the sole purpose of spreading that way. You can't underestimate the cleverness of disease.

 

28.11.2008, 14:48 quote

cmiso

Yes they were created before it was known as a risk, however they were sold afterwards despite knowing it and that is the problem.

 

28.11.2008, 14:57 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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u4ric wrote:
bbones wrote:
Quote:
misdiagnosis is quite common these days so I guess it could quite easily happen



man we ar talkin about the most debilitating disease causing virus here and with all the modern tech and whatnots, u would think much care is taken to handle the shit? it aint no sodding misdiagnosis bullshit! quite easily happen? lol man ok lets say the "misdiagnosis" did happen.. how the flippin heck did it actually reach a production line -> pharmacy -> human blood stream.. i believe this is a major drug company we are talknin about here and not some quacky confederate?! as a tax payer and potential end user, shouldnt u be worried about the rigorous tests that constitute the drug trade, rather than flimsily state that "it coud quite easily happen" ..lol common man


If you read the quote in my previous post it explains that these drugs were created at a time before HIV was screened in patients/blood samples. Ok so not strictly misdiagnosis but rather a late reaction to a new threat.

Once again I want to stress, I am not defending the actions of the company, just explaining how it might possibly have happened.

If you think about it theoretically it could easily happen again. Like the program Survivors on the BBC at the moment, it dosn't take long for a disease to mutate. Its possible that I disease could mutate into an undetectable strain and once again be used in blood samples by pharmaceutical company's or maybe even mutate for the sole purpose of spreading that way. You can't underestimate the cleverness of disease.



ur probably not gettin my point, lets forget about all that theoretical mutation malarkey for a sec.. all im tryin to say is that these companies are ruthless and even if it does "mistakenly" happen again, they'll still flood the market with it, for the sole purpose of monetary gain.. thats what bayer would want you to think.. "the cleverness of the disease" and not "the nastiness of mankind"

 

28.11.2008, 15:02 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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CMISO wrote:
Yes they were created before it was known as a risk, however they were sold afterwards despite knowing it and that is the problem.



exactly! u4ric is overwhelmed by the cleverness of the drug lol

 

28.11.2008, 15:09 quote

u4ric
u4ric Joined: 04 Sep 2008 Posts: 297 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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bbones wrote:
ur probably not gettin my point, lets forget about all that theoretical mutation malarkey for a sec.. all im tryin to say is that these companies are ruthless and even if it does "mistakenly" happen again, they'll still flood the market with it, for the sole purpose of monetary gain.. thats what bayer would want you to think.. "the cleverness of the disease" and not "the nastiness of mankind"


No I totally understand what your saying. I'm just saying, if a test didn't exist for a disease or knowledge of that disease did not yet exist then can you still blame the company?

Its like for example, you picking up an STD but you have no knowledge of it or how you could have received it yourself. You then meet the most amazing woman you ever met in your life and she is gagging for it. If you pass it onto her then of course that's your fault but you aren't really to blame are you?

How do you know this is not just media spin? One video on youtube and your convinced? Sorry but I stopped trusting the media long long ago.

 

28.11.2008, 15:21 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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lol damn. i suggest u go do some research then, cause it seems uve got the facts all muddled up in some kind of twilight zone type shit lol so what if its youtube? and dont gimme that "oh i dont trust the media" ..its ok if u can analyze what u see and hear in a reasonable quotient.. it could be a youtube video, a tabloid, a tv show, a forum, etc etc etc.. u already quoted something from survivors lol

 

28.11.2008, 15:23 quote

cmiso

u4ric wrote:
Its like for example, you picking up an STD but you have no knowledge of it or how you could have received it yourself. You then meet the most amazing woman you ever met in your life and she is gagging for it. If you pass it onto her then of course that's your fault but you aren't really to blame are you?


Well yeah you are. You and Bayer maybe. Laughing

 

28.11.2008, 15:28 quote

u4ric
u4ric Joined: 04 Sep 2008 Posts: 297 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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I didn't quote the program, just stated that the program is based on a very real threat. Also I don't trust the media but if I read some thing in the media that makes perfect sense to me without a doubt then I believe it myself.

 

28.11.2008, 18:12 quote

rocketgirl

u4ric wrote:
I didn't quote the program, just stated that the program is based on a very real threat. Also I don't trust the media but if I read some thing in the media that makes perfect sense to me without a doubt then I believe it myself.


I do believe that is exactly the point bbones was making.

Lets say you read something in the media, it makes perfect sense to you, so you believe it.
I read the very same article, I think "what a load of old tosh".....who is right, you or me?
Surely the one of us with the real facts to hand?

 
 
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