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13.02.2011, 19:08 quote

shere92

For all those who may enjoy it:


There were once three men, so observant and experienced in life that they were known as The Three Perceptives. One day during their travels they encountered a camel man, who said:

‘Have you seen my camel? I have lost it.’
‘Was it blind in one eye?’ asked the first Perceptive.
‘Yes,’ said the camel driver.
‘Has it one tooth missing in front?’ Asked the second Perceptive.
‘Yes, yes,’ said the camel driver.
'Is it lame in one foot?' asked the third Perceptive.
'Yes, yes, yes,' said the cameldriver.

The three Perceptives then told the man to go back along the way they had come, and that he might hope to find it. Thinking that they had seen it, the man hurried on his way.
But the man did not find his camel, and he hasted to catch up with the Perceptives, hoping that they would tell him what to do.
He found them that evening, at a resting-place.

‘Has your camel honey on one side and a load of corn on the other?’ asked the first Perceptive.
‘Yes,’ said the man.
‘Is there a pregnant woman mounted upon it?’ asked the second Perceptive.
‘Yes, yes,’ said the man.
‘We do not know where it is,’ said the third Perceptive.

The camel driver was now convinced that the Perceptives had stolen his camel, passenger and all, and he took them to the judge, accusing them of the theft.
The Judge thought that he had made out a case, and detailed the three men in custody on suspicion of theft.
A little later, the man found his camel wandering in some fields, and returning to the court, arranged for the Perceptives to be released. The judge, who had not given the men a chance to explain themselves before, asked how it was they knew so much about the camel, since they had apparently not seen it.

‘We saw the footprints of a camel on the road,’ said the first Perceptive.
‘One of the tracks was faint: it must have been lame,’ said the second Perceptive.
‘It has stripped the bushes at only one side of the road, so it must have been blind in one eye,’ said the third Perceptive.

‘The leaves were shredded, which indicated the loss of a tooth,’ continued the first Perceptive.
‘Bees and ants, on different sides of the road, were swarming over something deposited; we saw that this was honey and corn,’ said the second Perceptive.
‘We found long human hair where someone has stopped and dismounted, it was a woman’s,’ said the third Perceptive.
‘Where the person has sat down there were palm-prints, we thought from the use of the hands that the women was probably pregnant and had to stand up that way,’ said the first Perceptive.

‘Why did you not apply for your side of the case to be heard so that you could explain yourselves?’ asked the judge.

‘Because we reckoned that the cameldriver would continue looking for his camel and might find it soon,’ said the first Perceptive.
‘He would feel generous in releasing us through his discovery,’ said the second Perceptive.
‘The curiosity of the Judge would prompt an enquiry,’ said the third Perceptive.

‘Discovering the truth by his own enquiries would be better for all than for us to claim that we had been impatiently handled,’ said the first Perceptive.
‘It is our experience that it is generally better for people to arrive at truth through what they take to be their own volition,’ said the second Perceptive.
‘It is time for us to move on, for there is work to be done,’ said the third Perceptive.

And the men went on their way. They are still to be found on the highways of the earth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

13.02.2011, 19:59 quote

zacktelstar
zacktelstar Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 838 Location: United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
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Nice, But I'd keep them in a bit longer for being so smug!! But the philosophical shaggy camel's payload is a good one, like obtusely leading the horse to water, so it can drink...or not.

Here's a "A Question of Logic" a scene From "The Enigma of Kaspar Hausar"...he's a guy that escapes/ or is realeased from a mysterious silent incarceration that he's been subjeted all his life - to emerge in a village; where he is eventually the subject of curiosity in turn by the freaskshow audeinces, puzzled pedagogues, religious zealots, and the superior philosophers of the time


[url] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9uqPeIYMik&feature=related [/url]
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"The tighter you grasp Lord Vader, the more it will slip through your fingers."

 

13.02.2011, 22:53 quote

handsel
handsel Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 2254 Location: United Kingdom, England, West Midlands
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shere92 wrote:
[...}
‘It is time for us to move on, for there is work to be done,’ said the third Perceptive.

And the men went on their way. They are still to be found on the highways of the earth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well I've travelled many a highway, but I've never met these guys! Confused
And what age would they be now? Confused

But I'm with Zack, I'd have the judge give them a thrashing for smugness and wasting the court's time. Yeah, and the cost of their keep! Razz
And I'd have to wonder whether they were right in thinking they should leave their freedom to the diligence and generosity of the camel driver (a man who drives a lame camel) and to the curiosity of the judge (a man who did not want to listen before).
And whether they all agreed to that?

Is it telepathy, or right thinking, or good writing, that allows them to each put in the correct piece of the jigsaw - in the right order - with no repetition, hesitation, or deviation?

'...there is work to be done,' it ends.
These are Sufi trackers, who chase and capture any escapees from the Caliph; who spend the nights under their stars discussing philosophy and dreaming of corn, honey and pregnant women.

It's a damned good story tho!
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Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air.
(Jack Benny)

 

13.02.2011, 23:12 quote

zacktelstar
zacktelstar Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 838 Location: United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
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Handsel haha...A philosophical Wallender: it's like many a joke, you have the punchline or what you want to say, then work backwards to make it (the revalation) happen. Know your place, you are not a Perceptive - there can only be three!! (somewhere in a Wild Bean Cafe)


...watch mine btw, it's 'solved' by the protagonist but an interesting proposition. Dare I mention Godel on these boards??? hmmmm




I was requested to design that btw, and have in someway contrived the opportunity to display it Wink
_________________
"The tighter you grasp Lord Vader, the more it will slip through your fingers."

 

20.02.2011, 22:04 quote

handsel
handsel Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 2254 Location: United Kingdom, England, West Midlands
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zacktelstar wrote:
[...]
Dare I mention Godel on these boards??? hmmmm


[...]

G'wan then! G'wan then!
Mention him! Is he relevant to anything?

He's not like that guy Bertrand Russell, is he?
I tried his Problems of Philosophy once and - in the first bloody chapter - he couldn't decide if he was really sitting at a table - or, even, if it was a table! I thought, 'God! He's never going to solve any of the problems, if he can't even decide whether it's a table, or not?'
He got to: '(1) Is there a real table at all? (2) If so, what sort of object can it be?'
And that's when I stopped reading.
How could I know if there was a table?
Or if it was real?
Or what sort of an object it was?
All I had was a book of his words...
And he's going, 'I'm sitting at this table.'
Then, 'But is it real or not?' WTF!
_________________
Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air.
(Jack Benny)

 

22.02.2011, 00:28 quote

zacktelstar
zacktelstar Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 838 Location: United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
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Weren't you using a Bertrand Russell signature not so long ago? - a quote that perhaps did aid me getting a young ladies phone number. "Who said that" she said. "eeeer, I think was...Russel Br...Bertrand Russell!" (internaly mumbling....yeah, it's somebody's signature off flirtbox...admit it! No, you gonna take the praise)

But that anti-bookywook of his does sound a possible waste of time (crikey Very Happy ), and certainly not that enjoyable. We must assume he enjoyed writing it. Wink

Aye, Godel is 'like' Bertrand Russell insofar as Russell ventured into logic, and mathematical philosophy.

actually he just needs a top hat, a Harold Lloyd-ish optical mishap
...and obviously get his brain out. But that photo does disguise his epic jaundice
_________________
"The tighter you grasp Lord Vader, the more it will slip through your fingers."

 

22.02.2011, 10:38 quote

handsel
handsel Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 2254 Location: United Kingdom, England, West Midlands
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zacktelstar wrote:
[...]

actually he just needs a top hat, a Harold Lloyd-ish optical mishap
[...]

He looks a bit uncertain about the completeness of his incompleteness theorem to me! Razz
_________________
Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air.
(Jack Benny)

 

24.02.2011, 02:55 quote

zacktelstar
zacktelstar Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 838 Location: United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
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aye after all that, his epitaph in Princeton reads...




YO GODEL BELOW!
DIED AGE 71
JANUARY 14, 1978


I TRIED, BUT... EEERR VAAT CAN YOU DO EH!!


ANYONE...ANYONE, THROW ME A BONE! I...I STILL AVE ME VIT, YES? DESPITE MY NUMEROUS SETBACKS


(I'M ZERTAIN THIS WILL CATCH ON...)
http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/Contact.html

_________________
"The tighter you grasp Lord Vader, the more it will slip through your fingers."

 

24.02.2011, 13:57 quote

shere92

I do believe this thread has been defalcated of its original value...!

 

24.02.2011, 21:41 quote

handsel
handsel Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 2254 Location: United Kingdom, England, West Midlands
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shere92 wrote:
I do believe this thread has been defalcated of its original value...!

Defalcated? Not a word one comes across every day!
Or, even, every year!
IRTA 'defecated' first time!

Is the original post not a parable on perception and how one must find things out for oneself?
OK, Russell and Godel may not be Sufi, but they are perceptives of an internal variety and were also very keen on finding things out.
But I didn't know of Godel until Zack's post.
Or about Godel's work in completeness and incompleteness.
So I've found this thread educational, on a number of levels.
How many threads, defalcated or otherwise, do that? Confused
_________________
Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air.
(Jack Benny)

 

24.03.2011, 10:06 quote

icedfluffymoo

I can't decide if the three Perceptives would annoy me if I were the Camel driver because I kind of like what they've done.

 
 
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