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Home >> Sex >> Prostitution should be legalised in this country...
05.08.2006, 07:26 quote
| romaine wrote: |
| The suggestion that by objecting in principle to the exploitation of women and children within the global sex industry I am being naive is an odd one. Simply because something is "rife" as you put it does not mean it must be culturally acceptable or condoned by legalisation. The fact that you make the links between violence and exploitation shows that those who should be criminalised should be those men who believe that they have an inalienable right to pay for sex. Prostitution will never exist in a hermeticaly sealed vacumn. Its spreads its pernicious links to child prostitution, pornography and violence. Treat it as a business under the spurious guise of it being beneficial to the tax payer, societies send out the message that in such a free economy human life can have very little value. And that overwhelmingly women's lives and those of children are the most valueless. 500.000 women from eastern bloc european countries find themselves in European brothels every year, many of them against their will. The sex trade is second only to the arms and drug trades and is catching up rapidly. Just because it is there don't makeit morally right! So do not criminalise prostitutes, but the men who use them. |
There are lots of points in this, so I'll go through them in point form:
1) You *are* being naive, if you think you can ever get rid of prostitution by calling it names, and saying it exploits women and children, or that charging men will stop it. Kerb-crawling is already illegal, so that's irrelevant.
2) The whole reason there is exploitation, crime, violence, drugs, children involved in prostitution is BECAUSE it's illegal. If you legalised it (apart from the jobs it would generate to manage it), there would be no children working in the brothels, because they'd all have to have ID. There'd be no pimps giving drugs to girls to keep them involved. There'd be no pimps beating girls up or anything else. The job would be regulated like any other, so everyone would be safe, clean and no children would be involved. There'd be no sex-slaves either, because everyone would have to be employed legally, no illegal immigrants forced into it.
3) It would be benefical to the taxpayer, to the prostitutes, to the people who use them, to the people who live near red-light districts, to the police, in fact to everyone *except* the drug-pushers, pimps and criminals. Now how can that be a bad thing!?
Basically by legalising and controlling it, you would take away all the bad aspects, and make it safe for everyone involved, create jobs, revenue, and get a lot of women off drugs or out of violent situations.
It would also free up the police to stamp out illegal/child prostitution, because all the ones left on the streets would be illegal.
I'm confused as to why you think that eliminating drugs, violence, children, disease and people who are there against their will from prostitution is a bad thing?
You can never eliminate prostitution, that's why it's called "the world's oldest profession".
05.08.2006, 07:56 quote
| romaine wrote: |
| The suggestion that by objecting in principle to the exploitation of women and children within the global sex industry I am being naive is an odd one. Simply because something is "rife" as you put it does not mean it must be culturally acceptable or condoned by legalisation. The fact that you make the links between violence and exploitation shows that those who should be criminalised should be those men who believe that they have an inalienable right to pay for sex. Prostitution will never exist in a hermeticaly sealed vacumn. Its spreads its pernicious links to child prostitution, pornography and violence. Treat it as a business under the spurious guise of it being beneficial to the tax payer, societies send out the message that in such a free economy human life can have very little value. And that overwhelmingly women's lives and those of children are the most valueless. 500.000 women from eastern bloc european countries find themselves in European brothels every year, many of them against their will. The sex trade is second only to the arms and drug trades and is catching up rapidly. Just because it is there don't makeit morally right! So do not criminalise prostitutes, but the men who use them. |
That's fine, You're giving a better arguement now - I could agree with you that the men who use them are the more ideal candidate to criminalise.
However, you're on the wrong track here - we're not saying it would be "beneficial to the tax payer", again i'm insisting - it's violence that is the problem, i'm not sticking up for prostitution because it's a potential money-earner for the country. Lots of things make the country money. That's why i'm saying you're naive, because you're looking at this in a 2-dimensional way - these women will have sex for money, no matter what. Arresting them won't stop them going back out there after they're freed, because it's their way of life. It's how they manage to pay the bills whilst other people with money just look down on them.
If the system was legalised, such illegal acts such as child prostituion, or importation of women for sex, would become easier for the police to track down, because they're not chasing after the "non offenders" (you know, the ones who aren't actually harming anyone).
It's difficult, because you're so opposed to prostitution on its morals, you're not looking at the bigger picture, that's why you're naive.
Let's put it simply. Prostitution, with consenting adults, isn't harmful to anyone - 2 people, having sex, for money. Gotcha. Porn isn't illegal, is it? Nope. I'm sure you have issues with that too, but different thread.
So then let's assume that ideal situation, where 2 adults (of consenting age) are allowed to have sex for money. It's legalised. If the man abuses her, now she can get the police involved, because it's a legalised activity and her best interests require them to be involved. The male knows that she now has police protection and that the prostitute can get him in serious trouble.
If a child sex ring is being run, the police are no longer wasting man-power arresting the newly legalised prostitutes, they have more manpower to focus on the completely harmful sides of prostitution. All prostitutes, like in Amsterdam, are registered, have regular checks and carry no threat to anyone.
If illegal immigrants are imported for this (i'd fix the immigration system first though) then they would lack registration and be arrested immediately. It's really that simple.
05.08.2006, 07:58 quote
| swissrebel wrote: |
|
If illegal immigrants are imported for this (i'd fix the immigration system first though) then they would lack registration and be arrested immediately. It's really that simple. |
....We have an immigration system..?
05.08.2006, 08:34 quote
| flowerangelaura wrote: |
| ....We have an immigration system..? |
Of course we have a system - anyone who wants to sponge off us is immediately let in, give a free hotel room/house, free food and money, and allowed to do whatever they want, whether it be steal, rape women or commit any other number of illegal activities.
But, you know, we should feel sorry for these people for being displaced!
05.08.2006, 08:35 quote
| UnusualEd wrote: | ||
Of course we have a system - anyone who wants to sponge off us is immediately let in, give a free hotel room/house, free food and money, and allowed to do whatever they want, whether it be steal, rape women or commit any other number of illegal activities. But, you know, we should feel sorry for these people for being displaced! |
Sounds about right..
05.08.2006, 21:02 quote
| trixipaws wrote: |
| it kind of is legal, isnt it? porn is exchange of money for sex. |
You mean when the director pays a woman to have sex with someone? Yeah, I guess you've got a point there. Let me do a bit of googling.
05.08.2006, 21:06 quote
http://www.sfc.org.uk/sexlaws.html
It has always been legal to shoot hardcore, and edit pornographic films in the UK. The restrictions are on selling and distributing it. Illegal acts, such as actual rape, strong S/M, or sex with children or animals would, however, make filming or photography of them illegal.
05.08.2006, 21:08 quote
NO WAY
BEING A PROSTITUTE is legal - both hetero and gay, so long as he/she is 18 or over. The problem for prostitutes is that most things they need to do to earn a living are illegal, ie:-
• explicitly advertising their services - although newspapers now happily take "massage" adverts and many prostitutes now advertise on the Internet.
• soliciting in the street - which can mean as little as walking along with a condom in your handbag - is outlawed by the Street Offences Act 1959. Street walkers can also be prosecuted under the Vagrancy Act 1824. Men can be prosecuted for "importuning", whereas women cannot (Sexual Offences Act 2003).
• hanging out in the street - some street workers are being prosecuted for public order offences and receive ASBOs - Anti Social Behaviour Orders. Local authorities use ASBOs out of context to ban prostitutes from working in their area. There is also the possibility of prosecution for "outraging public decency" (Common Law). This has been used against "back-ally" sex workers including those who give quick hand jobs.
• cause alarm, distress or harassment - which could be from just "being a prostitute" - under the Public Order Act 1986.
• The Licensing Act 1964 prohibits landlords serving a prostitute and the Town Police Clause Act of 1847 criminalises selling refreshments to sex workers sitting together. The worry about the latter supposedly defunct Act is that it could criminalise health workers and volunteers who run drop-in centres.
• prostitutes paying men to help them (although you may be allowed to employ a female "maid"). The Sexual Offences Acts 1956 and 2003 criminalise men for living off immoral earnings, and men and women for "controlling prostitutes".
• working together in a flat, in a brothel, massage parlour or for an agency is illegal under the Disorderly Houses Act 1751 and the Sexual Offences Acts. It is normally tolerated in practice, so long as there are no drugs or underage people involved, and the neighbours have not complained.
• renting a flat is often difficult, as standard leases forbid the premeses to be used for "immoral purposes" and this means that a prostitute risks having her tenancy terminated.
• as they are providing a service, prostitutes should strictly speaking charge VAT if their earnings are over and above the relevant limit. But clients don't want to be identified, let alone be handed a VAT invoice. Prostitutes fear the Inland Revenue making extortionate income tax assessments (eg the Lindi St Clair case). As prostitution iteself is lawful, the income is taxable. Most sex workers thus make the choice to either (a) work undercover, stating another profession on their tax form. The Inland Revenue really don't care what you call yourself, so long as you pay your tax. or (b) work outside the tax system, in the black economy. To avoid suspicion and keep their National Insurance up-to-date, many sign on at the Job Centre for six months after which Jobseekers Allowance ends.
• sex workers have few legal rights and little protection from the law. They find it very difficult to get police protection or to take a case to court against a violent client for assault and there are many violent clients. Technically, if a client refuses to pay, that is rape because consent was a condition of payment. Juries, however, rarely convict a man of raping a prostitute.
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