With all due respect Greystone, I am just wondering if in fact you yourself understand this pick up stuff? (I myself am totally baffled by a lot of it).
I only ask because you are contradicting something you yourself stated earlier (or on another thread) that it is *not* about sex, yet here you say its about 'getting women into bed'.
Also, I don't get the argument that women deflect men's advances - it is basic nature of humans to want to get together after all, and doesn't Mystery say that women prefer to choose the Alpha male - not actually rebuffing men's advances but rather choosing the best mate?
I've obviously misunderstood something.

I am not contradicting myself as getting a woman into bed is not the be all and end all of a pick up routine. Going to bed with a woman is a major part of a relationship. So getting a woman into bed is getting to a solid stage in a relationship with a woman, it proves that you have reached the end point in a pick up routine. It doesn't mean that you are going to leave the woman once you have had sex with her. In most cases he pick up artist will see her again and again.

Also you are wrong as most women do rebuff mens advances. Mystery offers ways around this by the use of negs to fein dis-interest in a woman so as to disarm her rebuff shields. As well as the advice to initially ignore the target and concentrate on her friends that she is with.

"As well as the advice to initially ignore the target and concentrate on her friends that she is with".

A man acting coy? I thought that was the woman's perogative? Clever move....heehee

And thanks for the clarification, that makes a bit more sense to me now.

By the way that Channel 4 documentary on pick up artists was aired last Friday. I haven't seen it yet as it has not yet been uploaded to youtube. But I saw a couple of brief clips of it on the channel 4 website and also read reviews of it on the LSS forum.

Apparantly it is a bit negative towards the seduction community. It features pick up guru Adam Lyons demonstrating his ability to get the contact details of almost any woman in any situation by approaching a random girl in the street with a question then striking up a conversation and taking her number. As well as Beckster of PUAtraining instructing a class on things to say to a girl and footage of him demonstrating that in on a girl in Leciester Square. A bit about Ian who posts as gunner on the LSS forum recieving training from PUA training as well and ending up getting a couple of hot chicks into him. And finally about a guy called Darren who looks a bit like Russel Brand who has dedicated his life to learning game spending a fortune on seduction courses etc and finally shacking up with a rich woman he pulled who lives in Chelsea.

The whole programme is only 20 minutes long and skips briefly through the pick up scene. From what I have heard on the LSS forum loads of hours were filmed but it was then edited down a lot.

Yeah the interesting things always get editted down!

Years ago I was interviewed for a local TV programme - about 2 ruddy hours - in the end my "15 minutes of fame" was actually about 15 seconds and most people I knew - including me - missed it!!

Looks like I get another opportunity to play my favoured devil's advocate position!

Pickup technique and education is just a form of self-help.
There is nothing wrong with self-help.
As an individual, you can choose to pay attention or ignore, but chastising other people on their decision to improve their own quality of life is not a positive thing to do.

Tony Robbins has long been seen as one of the greatest self-help guru's. Not everyone's cup of cocoa, but he makes a lot of people more confident and feel better about themselves, and helps people to achieve their personal goals. There are other areas of life which have developed into self-help; financial gurus. I've been to property seminars. If men (or women for that matter) want to invest in training to give them more confidence in dating/career-goals/property-investment/meditation whatever, then that's their business.

The Stonemaster's only mistake is to try to preach about this brand of self-help to a lot of people who aren't interested. You're not going to change anyone's mind here fella! I wouldn't waste any more time trying to convince people how successful the community is. Some people are good at pulling. Some are good at making financial decisions. Others are good at irritating people, without having any notion that they are doing it.

As for the ugly thing! It seems that you are ignoring your own literature. (yes folks, I have read some of this stuff, although I don't live my life by it!). Thinking you are ugly is a classic example of having a 'limiting belief'. Your inner concept of how ugly you are comes out in your personality, and how you portray yourself. If you subconsciously project your own negative self-image, you're never going to flutter anyone's butterflies.