I'm bored with all this now, I give up......

[quote="Greystone"]

That is because you have never met a master pick up artist.


?????????????

ACtually I have to correct you there my dear - No man has ever...et cetera et cetera BECAUSE I DONT WANT THEM TO. Simple As.
My personal belief is that I have never, and will never, be that intimate with *any* man unless we are deadly serious about each other........even my husband had to wait til I was ready and willing.
Perhaps you would have understood that I am in control of what happens to my body, not some darn Pick Up Artist, if I told you that I CHOOSE to wait longer than 7-10 hours of yap over 2-3 days ALWAYS.
Next you'll have me believe this Mystery could talk/charm the knickers off mother theresa if he wanted to???!!!!

PS thanks for the laugh anyway, I nearly fell off the chair.

Let's be clear that those pickup techniques are designed for high value, desirable women. Not women with low status or self esteem.

Ooooh I feel a sly dig there......well I can for sure say I dont fall into any of those categories you state kiwirogue and im pretty glad about that. Thank god Im not up my own ass enough to class myself as highly desirable but yet my high self esteem and intelligence keeps me away from creeps like these who think a pick up line or 2 is the way to get into a womens pants.

So high value desirable women fall for crap like that from then??? So your saying these women dont have the intelligence to see through it??

Give me someone whos a genuinly nice guy who can do the old fashioned romancing over these types of guys anyday
_________________

No need to be so defensive. The reason women are treated as targets is because traditionally they have all the power in the dating game. Men, for the most part, are generally not self aware enough to know what they're doing wrong when it comes to meeting a range of diverse, mature and interesting women. They're generally getting cut down at the first hurdle. It's generally understood that women CHOOSE their partners, and men are expected to court, and compete for their affections.

Techniques are merely designed to attempt to break down the many walls that women have developed, and give one an advantage in a game that women perpetuate far more than they realise.

A high value woman is not unlike a high value man:
Intelligent
Emotionally mature
Not needy
Has a sense of humour
Self aware
Attractive

It's just that men place a little more importance on appearance, whereas women place it on (as Mystery says) social proof.

For all those claiming to understand basic psychology, there seems to be a distinct lack of understanding of the larger social dynamics at play.

A high value woman is not unlike a high value man:
Intelligent
Emotionally mature
Not needy
Has a sense of humour
Self aware
Attractive

Ah, you've answered my next question - obviously from what you've just said, it's only "low value" men who are PUAs in that case.

I would also say that that is extremely insulting to women who are maybe not so intelligent, lack a certain emotional maturity, are a little 'needy', don't share *your* sense of humour, don't have a strong sense of self-awareness and aren't 'attractive' in *your* eyes - these people (both male and female) want, and deserve, someone to love and want them in this world.
But that's not about this PUA thang is it.

I also question your suggestion that people who 'calim to understand basic psychology' don't understand the larger dynamics at play'.
Many a book has been written by *leading psychologists* on this subject for the last 100 years.
It might be 'generally understood' by *you* that women have the upper hand in the dating game - I - and alot of well-respected psychologists, and no doubt some men on this website - don't agree with that.

And let us not forget another important factor - the population of the seduction community is FACTUALLY a very minor percentage of the whole male population - and the majority of non-PUAs are either married or at the very least getting a regular legover without the need to learn 'techniques' from Mystery.
Men are just as capable of "choosing" who they date, not just women and I think it's an insult to alot of men to suggest otherwise.

I still stand by what I've said all along - the men who follow Mystery have low-self-esteem, lack self-awareness or even awareness of others ie lack the ability to pick up social clues per se, and this Mystery guy and others like him have simply taken advantage of them to make himself a few quid.

PS And what's a "low status" woman?

"Techniques are merely designed to attempt to break down the many walls that women have developed",

Err, I just re-read that bit.

Umm, maybe a woman has developed said walls to keep PUAs at bay? What you are saying is "I want that woman and I'm going to have her, regardless of her opinions/choices/feelings/whether or not she is attracted to me or not - I WILL break down her barriers and get in her knickers!!".

Charmed, I'm sure.
So nice to know that a PUA would value me so highly........not - and thinks his 'techniques' for totally ignoring my boundaries is more important than I am. Wow, that's really valuing a person

Of course those men have low self esteem. What a ridiculously obvious statement. The point of developing techniques is for the individual to overcome perceived flaws in themselves, and to make themselves more appealing to the opposite sex.

Regardless of how 'insulting' you think it is to men, the fact is that it is mostly up to the man to court and compete for women's affections. The large majority of men unfortunately are not good with initial social interactions. If everyone were good at such interactions, then "experts" like Mystery would not even exist.

I think it's important to realise that just because someone is trying to learn techniques that allow them to interact better with women, that they're trying to become a seduction or pickup artist. Many are, in fact, just average guys looking to be more successful in the dating game. They're looking to successful people to assist them with skills that they don't currently possess. You're exactly right in the assertion that pick up artists are a huge minority in the real world. Much of what these specifically male dating experts preach is actually about self improvement. It's about making yourself a better man, and more attractive overall- it's not always about trying to become a player or a seduction expert.

Chances are, if you meet more women through better interaction with new skills, you're far more likely to meet someone more compatible in terms of your long term desires.

I'm not sure why I would bother detailing what a low status woman is. It's essentially the opposite of what I have already spoken about. Are they less deserving of love? Of course not. Should they be more self aware and open to self improvement? Absolutely. We all should be open to that.

And lastly, when I said "attractive", it's clearly not an objective statement. "Attraction" will always be a personal thing, so whether or not someone is attractive is essentially based, as the cliché tells us, in the eye of the beholder.

An interesting reply. I had hoped you would 'bother' to answer simply cuz I asked nicely, and I am genuinely interested.
I've read extensively Mystery's teachings, books, literature and videos on the web.
It occurred to me that you might have chosen your profile photo because Mystery says "present yourself as the strong, 'must have' hunter-gatherer so that when a woman sees the other ladies draped over your arm she will see that you are desirable and will want you for herself". Something along those lines --- so out of idle curiosity, have you been inundated with messages on this board by ladies dying to meet you?
I am not in any way being facetious or dissing you, I am genuinely interested because I did firstly chalk you up as a PUA/seduction community advocater, but now I am not so sure?
One of the reasons why I disagree with Mystery is because more and more in this day and age women want to be interacted with by men as equals, not a possible conquest.
Mystery's take on the psychology of 'the game of life' is from the 1950s, not modern times.

To be honest this avatar is not the picture that I actually chose. It is one of them, but my profile pic that women see when browsing is a lot more cheeky (and is me by myself), to reflect my personality a little more. I'm a little unsure as to why this picture has come up as the default avatar on the forums. It was just one that I thought was a good one of me, and am of the opinion it's good to have women in 1 or 2 of your pictures.

As it stands, I am also yet to receive any messages.

BTW I am completely opposed to seduction for seduction's sake. I just don't think that all men that look to techniques & self improvement to further themselves, should automatically be discarded as pick up artists.