^^^^^
I have always admired Greystone for his convictions and his belief in what he stands for – I rarely agree with his views, but he does make very good points sometimes, and instigates topics that are food for personal thought (well, for me anyway)!

But I believe that people enjoy the lifestyle they have now – OK, the recession has hit some people very hard, but on the whole the vast majority of people (certainly in the UK) are neither better nor worse off than they were before the recession, and they would fight tooth and nail to preserve their lifestyle. Hmmm, maybe not – we, in this country are an apathetic lot, and a disgustingly large percentage of the nation can’t even be arsed to vote!

However, logically, I would say that, despite the huge numbers of people who attend such protests, the vast majority of people in the country are just like me – they ARE ‘the workers’. Almost certainly, most of them don’t want the responsibility of being ‘in control’; they want someone else to be in control so that they can go home at night after a day’s work without any baggage and not have to worry about ‘being in control’ – they want to go to work, get paid each month, pay their bills, go on the piss, go on holiday every now and again, and have a shag when it suits them, and leave the ‘control’ to those who are better suited to such tasks.

A lot of the problem is surely that it will get worse before it gets better. We are talking about a radical change here, not just a bit of tricky legislation or the like. A whole new regime will be very difficult to implement effectively in a short period of time. Although it may ultimately improve things in the longterm, in the short term we may well suffer badly. The truth is that things aren't that bad, particularly in this country and particularly for the rich who are in control, so most people are not prepared to take the risk.

A handful of hard lefties demanding to take control because they know whats best for the rest of us doesnt sound too democratic to me.

Yep ending up with a leader we've not elected picked by a small number of lefties sounds ridiculous. Oh hang on.
_________________

5 years ago I would been nodding my head and agreeing with Greystone. However, experience, research, and the realisation that if there ever is a communist government then I will not be leader, have led me to change my views. It's not so much the vision that I have a problem with, it's the road to it. I also wonder if the anti-competitive nature of such a system would ultimately lead to a pro-capitalist reversion because ambitious, entrepreneurial types will react against being a 'cog'. How enterprising can people be in such a situation?

Change must come through the barrel of a gun......

Or a barrel of rum

It is strange how so many people on here are dissmissive of the anti-G20 Summit protests. I suppose most people have been brainwashed by the mainstream media to think that everything in the world is OK. When in reality the world is in dire straits and needs radical change.
*Edited by Cazz - Posting the web address on your opening post was enough. No need to post it again*

A sense of humour and the ability to laugh at oneself also goes a long way!



I think very few people here actually disagree with the premise that the world is 'dire straits' and that changes are needed. I think what most people find ludicrous is that no-one actually goes into any detail about *how* these changes will be implemented.

It's all very commendable saying things like

Actually I do disagree that it's in dire straits, it's certainly not perfect but it's too big and complex to ever be that. Obviously it definitely (had to fight the urge to spell that wrong) can be improved but I don't think that is an effective way to go about changing it.

And if anyone here is easy to brainwash Greystone it's always been you.
_________________

I think what needs establishing very clearly is exactly what's wrong with the world (or whatever area we are talking about) and exactly what's right. Then find a way of tackling the wrong bits while not undoing the right bits. This idea of tearing down the system is all very exciting/motivational/radical etc etc but it'll set everything back by decades, until a new order is eventually established.

I'm siding with DH on this one

Just a stab in the dark, but is the main problem greed? How much abuse of other human beings goes on in the world due to greed? quite a bit I would say. But what I am not saying is that is the sole cause of problems.
I would have to sit on the fence a bit on this subject because I dont know the answer. If I did I doubt i would be sitting here typing it on this forum