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Home >> Anything else >> The G20 protests in London.

27.03.2009, 23:13 quote

kadushu

Lets just nuke London. No more bankers, politicians or protestors. Everyone's a winner!

 

27.03.2009, 23:16 quote

toby

@CMISO: Yes, but protest from people who know exactly what they want. An "Anti-G20" protest that consist of 50% of people who don't exactly know that the G20 is and what they do is a bit useless.

I think they are barking at the wrong tree...

Maybe they should protest against Gordon Brown first of all? He is representing the UK in the G20 after all...

 

27.03.2009, 23:23 quote

toby

kadushu wrote:
Lets just nuke London. No more bankers, politicians or protestors. Everyone's a winner!


or let's just let the financial system and economy die - and start again from zero - with a new currency and no debts but maybe this is going to happen anyhow...

 

27.03.2009, 23:25 quote

cmiso

No it isn't.

 

27.03.2009, 23:37 quote

toby

Are you sure? I don't know...but I would also not be surprised either.....

by the way, there is a really good documentary, called "let's make money".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_i4tDqZCk&feature=related

 

28.03.2009, 09:07 quote

Greystone
Greystone Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 444 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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The protesters are not just turning up to protest. This is an action against the capitalist system itself. The long term aim is to destroy the capitalist system and replace it with a system based on production for need not profit.

If you want to learn more about the alternative to capitalism then there are tons of left wing bookshops in London as well as left wing websites where you can go to find out it in depth.

But basically what the alternative to capitalism would be would be the placing off all the means of production, distribution and exchange under democratic workers control.

By the way the anarchist protesters have their own news and information website here where the weeks events in London can be followed:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk

 

28.03.2009, 10:10 quote

bbones
bbones Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Posts: 1164 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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democratic workers control??? what/who's this?
_________________

francine needn some attention
wilma givn that thank u smooch
ha no im not pinchin lois' tig ol bitties
betty wonderin how the marry she ended up here

 

28.03.2009, 10:19 quote

darkhorse57

As far as I’m aware, most businesses that provide ‘production, distribution or exchange’ are privately owned. Assuming that my business fell into a ‘production, distribution or exchange’ category (which it doesn’t, I provide a service), I wonder exactly which ‘democratic workers’ would come and place my business under their control? I think I might have something to say about that ..... I think most people who had worked hard to build up their ‘production, distribution or exchange’ enterprise would object to someone walking in and telling them that so-called ‘democratic workers’ were now going to control their business. With this in mind, forcing people to do something that they don’t want to do is not anarchy or enforcing communist ideals, it is basically a dictatorship (i.e. we want this to happen, and it’s going to happen whether you want it to or not).

 

28.03.2009, 15:11 quote

god
Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 752
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Greystone wrote:
The protesters are not just turning up to protest. This is an action against the capitalist system itself. The long term aim is to destroy the capitalist system and replace it with a system based on production for need not profit.

If you want to learn more about the alternative to capitalism then there are tons of left wing bookshops in London as well as left wing websites where you can go to find out it in depth.

But basically what the alternative to capitalism would be would be the placing off all the means of production, distribution and exchange under democratic workers control.

By the way the anarchist protesters have their own news and information website here where the weeks events in London can be followed:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk


Yes, but it has nothing to do with the G20 as such.

The problem is communism never worked...neither in Russia, nor the DDR or in China. It always turned out not to be compatible with democracy.

In theory, communism sounds good, but in practise it can not work - the only thing you can try is to combine some "communistic" ideas and integrate them into our society, without sacrificing democracy and the right to possess something....some kind of "communism 2.0".

But you do not need to protest against the G20 to do that. Nobody stops you from doing this.

You can start now - just create your own company and share the revenue amongst all employees. This would be the first step...

 

28.03.2009, 15:25 quote

cmiso

Don't the Co-Op already do that?

 

28.03.2009, 15:45 quote

god
Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 752
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I don't know. But some companies do this - they either share the revenue amongst all - or at least invest it into the company to create new jobs.

Some companies have to give all the revenue to the owners - who spend it...or save it in order to rank higher on the Forbes list - such as Wallmart, Ikea, Aldi....

 

28.03.2009, 16:37 quote

Greystone
Greystone Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 444 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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darkhorse57 wrote:
With this in mind, forcing people to do something that they don’t want to do is not anarchy or enforcing communist ideals, it is basically a dictatorship (i.e. we want this to happen, and it’s going to happen whether you want it to or not).
It will happen though. I was at the rally today in Hyde Park and you should have heard some of the trade union leaders speaking they are adament about the need for the workers to sieze control. There were loads of speaches by people denouncing the current capitalist economic system.

The present system is not democratic as it is controlled by a few rich bosses. No one elects the bosses and no one has a say in what they do with the economy.

By the way there will also be a ecological climate camp set up in the road in Bishopsgate on the same day. Hundreds of people will be bringing pop up tents and giant marquees will be erected as well. See this: http://www.climatecamp.org.uk

 

28.03.2009, 16:43 quote

kadushu

So we will end up like early 20th C Russia? Great. Basically its a motion to make everyone more equal in theory, but in practice everyone wants to be better off. To remove hegemony and competition is to remove human nature from the equation. Communism assumes that society can act like a machine.

 

28.03.2009, 16:56 quote

darkhorse57

Greystone wrote:
darkhorse57 wrote:
With this in mind, forcing people to do something that they don’t want to do is not anarchy or enforcing communist ideals, it is basically a dictatorship (i.e. we want this to happen, and it’s going to happen whether you want it to or not).
It will happen though. I was at the rally today in Hyde Park and you should have heard some of the trade union leaders speaking they are adament about the need for the workers to sieze control.


I AM the worker. I am also self-employed. Therefore I AM in control.

And anyone attempting to force me to do anything other than what I am already doing (I'm happy the way I am thank you very much) will face a mini-revolution right on my doorstep when they turn up, and get a fucking baseball bat around their knees (they sell them in Sportsworld for about Six Of My Finest Capitalist Pounds, and I would be happy to divert these Six Capitalist Pounds to the Capilalist Sportsworld Coffers for the pleasure of breaking some c*nts legs - I am on a very short fuse right now )

 

28.03.2009, 17:08 quote

Greystone
Greystone Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 444 Location: United Kingdom, England, London
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kadushu wrote:
So we will end up like early 20th C Russia? Great. Basically its a motion to make everyone more equal in theory, but in practice everyone wants to be better off. To remove hegemony and competition is to remove human nature from the equation. Communism assumes that society can act like a machine.
No it will be nothing like what happened in Russia! You have to remember that Russia was a very backward country when the revolution took place there. It was a mostly agricultural country not an advanced industrial country like Britain.

Even so life improve dramatically eventually for ordinary people in Russia compared to how they lived under the Czars. Dramatic improvments in health care and education took place despite massive set backs like famines, civil war and the Second World War and eventually the Cold War.

You also misunderstand communism. True communism has never been established any where. The communist regimes of the Third World and eastern Europe never progressed beyond the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' stage because of the backwardness of those countries.

Under true communism there will be democratic workers control and a plan of production to produce what is needed. By the way due to the current economic global crisis there has been a massive increase in interest in anti-capitalist and socialist ideas.

 
 
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