I have just read, that the number of road casualties in Germany has reached the lowest level since 1950. 4467 people died in road accidents in 2008, which is 9,7% lower then in 2007. The number of people getting injured in road accidents reduced by 5,5%.

So I was curious about a comparision between Germany and the UK.

In the UK, there 2,946 died on the streets in 2007 (2008 numbers are not published yet).

The UK has 60,9 Million people and all motorways added together are 3,523 km in length.

Germany has 82 Million people and 12,500 km of motorways.

So, considering the different population, the numbers are similiar.

The speed limits in the UK are about 60 km/h in towns, 110 km/h on country lanes/motorways.

In Germany, in towns speed limits vary betwen 30 km/h and 50 km/h, on country lanes it is 100 km/h and there is no speed limit on motorways (e.g. you can legally drive 300 km/h if you keep the safety distance).

The majority of accidents in the UK are in town centers, involving pedestrians (e.g. crossing red lights as a pedestrian) and motorways.

In Germany least accidents happen on motorways and less accidents involving pedestrians in town centers (you have to pay a fine if you cross red lights as a pedestrian and loose your driving license if you cross red lights as a driver).

So, I think this means the speed limit on motorways does not help and should be increased or lifted, whereas in town centers and country lanes, the speed needs to be reduced...and there should be fines on crossing red lights?

What do you think?

Just my 2 pence....

Well it's spurious maths really, the raw figures we are looking a just don't give enough information. Along with your curious selection for speed limits in the uk.* Not to mention that in many town/city centres you'll be lucky to get anywhere near the speed limits much of the time.

But if we have to use these to compare them, you have to use a year for which both countries have figures, so calculating Germany's to about 4900 deaths, if the uk's population was is extrapolated to the same as Germany's we'd have roughly 4000 deaths.

So by that reckoning alone Germany should be looking at copying the UK's road limits rather than the other way around.

Crossing red lights is already illegal and can see you in court, carries a maximum £1000 fine (same as speeding when not on a motorway), seldom does but that's not much of a shock.

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*built up areas are 30mph about (50km/h), some areas around schools and the like are down to 20mph (33km/h). Although some areas predominantly where crossing is less likely are 40mph. (65km/h)

Elsewhere it's 60mph (about 100km/h) for cars on single lane roads, which most country lanes are (so the same as Germany on those), and only 70 on dual carriageways and motorways. The limits for larger vehicles are lower outside of built up areas.

So other than motorways the limits look broadly similar to Germany.
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The main problem is that the roads are different and the way you learn to drive is also different...and the way people drive - so you can not apply the rules from one country to the other.

In general, changing rules is only a good idea, if it has a positive effect. But there is no proof that introducing a speed limit on a motorway causes less accidents...the statistics show the opposite. Motorways without a speed limit have less accidents.

You pay less attention at low speeds or at constant speeds - especially on long journeys. Apart from that, a few people always drive faster, no matter whether it is allowed or not. So if it is allowed, it is safer, as people drive more careful.

But I still think that in town centers it should sometimes be lowered...On straight multi-lane motorways, the speed as such is not a factor that influences accidents...safety distance plays a more crucial role and the condition of the car.

On motorways accidents are mainly caused by lorry drivers who fall asleep. I also think that in some countries, such at the USA, where the speed limit is even lower, the accidents rise because people fall asleep quicker. If you drive 80 km/h for hours it is more likely you fall asleep as if you where driving 140 km/h and in between sometimes maybe 180 km/h and then 140 km/h again - so it is less tedious. This is also why lorry drivers fall asleep often - not only because of the long hours they keep on driving without a rest, but also because they drive at a constant speed...so your brain goes to the idle mode because not much is happening and then if something happens, you are to slow to react. If you vary the speed or drive fast, you are more attentive as you need to react quicker. At lower speeds people are more likely to play around with their mobile phone or with the car radio...or watch the landscape.

I also think people drive more reasonable if the speed is your own responsibility - and in practice the majority of people do not drive "as fast as their car can go", only as fast as the feel safe and as fast as they feel comfortable with...

and last but not least - often there are traffic jams anyhow .

Still seems simplistic to me, could be that there is much higher traffic on the ones with speed limits for one thing.
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The more traffic there is, the lower the speed gets automatically...there is a "natural speed limit" anyhow...so on busy roads you do not need one because you need to break all the time anyhow.
On average busy roads the speed in Germany is not much different from the UK...in the UK 110 km/h is allowed and many drive 130 km/h, in Germany there is no speed limit, but it is automatically slows down....the only difference is, that the speed on all lanes is different and lorry "usually" keep on one side politely...from experience I would say 30% drive about 120, 50% 120-160 and 10% 160-180 and 8% 190-250 and 2% faster..maybe 0.5%.... if the roads are empty.

In Florida for exmaple, the speed is so slow, that lorries can overtake cars...and they do it because they keep in touch and know where the police is - so the lorries are usually speeding, overtaking and not keeping a safety distance. In Germany, lorry drivers are more careful when chaging lanes, because they know every time there could be a faster car...so they can't just change lanes all the time. So it feels a lot more dangerous to drive a car in Florida at 80 km/h then 180 km/h in Germany..or 110 km/h in the UK or 130 Km/h in France.

What needs to be asked really though is, 'what is the major cause of road accidents?'.
Inappropriate speed relative to the conditions (day/night, rain/clear, side road/motorway etc) is undoubtedly a factor but not the sole reason.

Apart from mechanical failure (which happens less and less as vehicles are made increasingly safe and reliable) there is basically only the driver to blame.
When the day comes when control of the vehicle is taken away from the individual and is instead entrusted to high powered computers to keep a safe distance and with knowledge of all other road use etc, we will see the number of deaths on roads caused by 'accident' reduced to virtually zero.
I for one wouldn't want a computer to drive me along though. Although oddly we find that fine when we're in a plane that's on autopilot.
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Well there is a lot less to hit up there Trev, and a lot less drunk and unqualified pilots than drivers too.
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