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07.01.2011, 15:46 quote

theresaw

I cannot, under any circumstances approve of war.

I feel very sorry for soldiers whichever side they're on. I don't care what anyone says to me - soldiers, no matter what their age, are indoctrinated into believing that what they do is right and there is simply no justification for what they do or what is done to them.

In Africa, very young children, sometimes as young as 6 years old, go out and cut off hands and arms of children and adults alike in what is considered warfare, their victims are given a choice of which arm or hand they wish to be cut of, left or right.

I don't for a second believe that any Creator wants to see any of His/Her Creations suffer in this way.

The soldiers come back damaged for life, the physical damages are negligible compared with the psychological damage that is done to them and to a lesser extent to their families, friends, wives, children, girlfriends, whatever.

This psychological damage is ongoing from generation to generation and somehow we just find that acceptable and we're indoctrinated into believing that it's okay - it's not!

Those in charge of governments should be willing to take the blame for this - they should, like in corporates be willing to say "the buck stops here!" Those in government should do the fighting - sit at a table and pull guns on each other themselves, have a dual, whatever. Why is it that we can't act like civilised human beings - we call ourselves civilised (well some of us anyway) and yet we act far worse than animals, animals would never fight the way we do, never!

I'm sorry about ranting and raving this way, but I had a boyfriend who went off to war here in South Africa - you either went or you were locked in jail. He came back wild and hating people - before he was a peace loving individual. He was indoctrinated into believing that he was right to believe that all black people were wicked - how sick was that?

War is evil.

"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepared for war." Albert Einstein

 

07.01.2011, 20:16 quote

theresaw

I hear what you're saying, but if every "soldier" refused to fight, we wouldn't have wars.

If there was nobody to send off those bombs - then those countries couldn't be at war.

I know that it's just me hoping for an ideal situation and I know that at the stage of development that we humans are at it just can't happen, we're just too greedy, but I just HATE what we're all about - we fight with each other for all the wrong reasons - we're supposed to be here to learn to love.

We just don't even begin to measure up - do we?

 

08.01.2011, 14:29 quote

theresaw

lovoftching wrote:
Alright, I had to get in on this one! Since I was a wife, a daughter, and I am a mother of a military service members. And here's the gist. We need for the balance of democracy within countries and around the globe to be stable. Had we let Milosevic continue to murder large populations of Muslims and anyone else in their way, we would be just as guilty. Watching someone commit genocide on their country is not what I would call a peaceful solution. Who would have thought that we would witness in this day and age genocide? Let's not forget our most recent problem, Saddam Hussein. Wasn't he lovely. Just imagine for one minute what it would be like to live under his regime.

Also, people have a right to basic freedoms! We pay taxes, we obey the laws. We should be protected against invasions. Don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be invaded, and then be made to pray to a different god, speak a different language, work for the benefit of the government. Not be able to own my own land, work that land. Yes, many, many have died so that so many of us could enjoy the freedoms that we all have. My brother was one. My daughter is currently serving (Her choice). Do I feel good about what they did/do. Not necessarily, and not at the cost of their lives. But, someone needed to do it, the jobs were created, people were called forward to do it, it is not going away. Those who gave their lives for their countries freedom, deserve to be honored. Those now and those from the past. If every soldier refused to fight, they'd be dead. Oh, and no country has involuntary service, except for China. Everyone must serve a term there. So, soldiers choose to join. Their choice!

Does the term "Free Will" ring a bell? God gave us that! Amazing the interpretation that some have. I guess that some crazed man, who had a been abused as a child, shouldn't be held accountable for a murder her committed because it just wasn't his fault, it was his situation! Would you look past that and see the man for who he really is? Just another man? Nope, At least I hope not.

Oh, also, those bombs, aren't necessarily being sent as much as they are being built in those countries. And, the powers that be don't like war either. It is the necessary of two evils.




In South Africa, in the 70s and 80s, we had forced military service, if you were white and a male, you were forced to join the army and if you didn't you were sent to prison for your 2 year stint.

But that's besides the point, I don't think you're reading me right - I'm not blaming the soldier, I'm blaming the people in general, the fact that war must exist, the fact that we, as human beings, haven't developed to the stage where we can live without wars. I think we're sick.

Our Creator must look at us with great disappointment.

If you speak about Saddam Hussein - it was a given that as soon a Bush Jnr came to power Hussein was going to be targeted and killed (is murdered a better word perhaps?) no matter what. Bush Jnr was going to get him because his father had been targeted by Hussein - I said it on the day that Bush Jnr was elected and I wasn't the only one.

If you want to talk about war and genocide, then why didn't any of those armies go into Rwanda? 800000 Tutsi's slaughtered in just 100 days, the world knew about it, pictures of those atrocities flashed around the world on the news every day - but nobody did anything about it. What's that you say - too far away, not so, there were UN forces close by.

What about the shocking situation in Zimbabwe? The ever deteriorating leader Robert Mugabe has been a dictator in that country for a number of years now, beating or killing his opposition as he pleases. Food for the starving masses goes "missing" as it disappears into the homes and warehouses of government leaders where it is either eaten by them or sold at prices that cannot be afforded by those who really need it. Cholera epidemics occur where many thousands die and the epidemics become pandemics and unstoppable and the Zimbabwe government ignores it and focusses on taking over land illegally stating that they will give it to the "people" and they do - they give it to government officials and the landless and dispossessed remain landless and dispossessed. Genocide has been taking place in Zimbabwe now for many years & people have been streaming into South Africa by the 100 000s on an annual basis - where are the armies to help them? Nowhere - it's not considered to be a crisis. Why? There is no benefit to the western world - no oil, no financial benefit at all.

These wars must be of some strategic significance before the leaders of the western world will touch them. Our "powers that be" are not so squeaky clean, but the day will come when they will have to answer for their choices.

They put the lives of millions and millions of young people of every generation on the line and they benefit personally.

I too have lost friends and family over the years.

Yes, we do say that they have died an honourable death, serving their country.

But I am saying that the leaders of the countries know better - they have no right to place these lives in jeopardy in the first place.

The boys and girls who go to do the fighting know little or nothing of what they are actually fighting for - it's never told to them, they are indoctrinated into believing one thing, but the facts are never given either to them or to the public.

I think that our leaders, the very people who we vote into public office are not good guys, but answer they will.

And as for us, the human race - we are pathetic. There is very little good that can be said of us.

 

09.01.2011, 00:04 quote

theresaw

I'm not considering this an argument - I'm considering it an intelligent discussion.

South Africa had just been re-elected as head of the UN Security Council - I don't understand why, they made a total hash of it last time by voting in such a way that Zimbabwe continued to be allowed to mismanage the country and abuse it's people.

It is a known fact that individuals abuse their power.

I am aware of the rules that are put into place in prevent abuse of power, but I also know that they don't always work.

I'm not disputing that mankind has done a lot of good things as well, I'm just suggesting that warring with each other is not one of the better things that we've done and are still doing.
I'm also agreeing that at the moment there is no better way that I can think of. However, I still think that our choice of fighting each other is pathetic. I think we are shameful and I am honestly embarrased about the way that we fight with each other, it's just not right.

Scientist believe that dolphins are at the same level of development as mankind. They also have five digits and they have the same brain size as we do. It would seem that when we left water to live on land, they chose to live in water instead. If this is true, have they not made a greater success of their lives than we have? They have not built a single weapon of war and destruction and they never fight to the extent that we do. If that is true - how much of an embarassment are we to our Creator?

Robert Mugabe took power from Ian Smith when democracy came to Zimbabwe - at first things went well for Zimbabwe, but as with most African countries, as soon as the leader held onto power for more than 3 years, the leader became power hungry.

Our wonderful Madiba (Nelson Mandela) vowed that he would not stand for more than one period as President and then he would stand down for exactly that reason - he would not under any circumstances become power hungry.

South Africa is an example to all of the world (and I'm not saying the because I am a South African - it certainly wasn't me who did it, it was because we had the wonderful Madiba as our leader) that there can be peaceful transition from a place where turmoil rules.
Israel won't listen to this - they say that their situation is different and so the fires of war burn brightly there. That's nonsense, every country can learn the same lesson as South Africa learned at the time - you can forgive and you can compromise, no matter what your situation.
There was no fire of war waiting to burn more brightly than the one here in South Africa - the races truly hated one another and I can vouch for that, I've lived here all my life, but some exceptionally forgiving soul who was and is one of the world's greatest leaders, changed that situation overnight.
It CAN happen, things CAN be different, if only we would allow it to be the case.
But once again things are changing in South Africa, the exceptional Madiba is moving towards his inevitable death and he is losing the ground that he once won - will fighting start soon? It's possible - land is being taken from farmers as it was in Zimbabwe and there is talk of mines being taken over by government - the local electrical supply that is run by government is no longer trustworthy and electricity can no longer be relied on whether in summer or winter.
And so it is when individuals become power hungry and greed takes over. Very different when our Madiba had some control.

 
 
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