Yet some more religious babble, but it's still the most broad subject to cover, again i'd like a religious person to answer this.

If the devil was once an angel and was banished from heaven for defying God.

And you go to Heaven for doing God's will,
And to hell if you don't follow God's will (Sins)

Erm, anyone feel like telling me why you would go to eternal punishment with the devil for defying God just the same as he defied him?

And the Devil is supposed to be the arch-nemesis of God, so why would the Devil punish you instead of praising you?

It's portrayed that the Devil doesn't follow Gods rules, so for the life of me i cant figure out why he supposedly punishes people for not following the rules themselves. As ive said, 3 times in different paragraphs. It just baffles the absolute shit out of me. If i defied someones rules, and they banished me from their home..and someone else broke that persons rules, i'd fucking high five them not burn them.

The Devil was not an angel. He was a high-ranking Jinn who had almost similar rights to the angels, but was known to be a schemer, and defied God by refusing to bow to Adam, who was created after all of the Jinn. Angels first, then Jinn, then humanity.

All the angels did bow, as did all the Jinn, but Iblis (the Shaytaan/Satan/the Devil) was proud and arrogant and said he would not bow to humanity - which was made from clay - and that as he, (Iblis), was made from pure fire he felt he was superior to us, but isn't.

So God sentenced Iblis immediately to Hell.

Iblis then asked God to postpone execution of his sentence until the end of time. So God then granted him a reprieve, knowing Iblis was scheming - to which Iblis then responded that he would mislead everyone one of us - except those who had loyalty (faith) to God - and would take as many of humanity to hell with him. He blamed Adam and Adam's descendants for his sentencing, even though God is his, our, the angels and the jinn's employer - not friend, equal, lovie dovey fluffy touchy feelly goddie, but boss - the same as he always was. He never changed.

God then granted Iblis the right to mislead - as a test for humanity. It serves God's plan to only reward those loyal and grateful for being created, animated and given life to, in the same way it only pays to reward an employee who is loyal, and to sack the others, or to reward people for good acts and to punish others for crimes. So Iblis was given permission to allocate a Qareen (constant companion - a devil which the Shaytaan (Iblis) acts through) to each human, to accompany them (us) wherever we go, to try to screw us over in the shorter or longer term. That is why when you die and 'mediums' try to contact your soul, it's not you they are contacting - as your soul is elsewhere (another story) - but the Qareen, who knows a lot about you, but not everything.

As the Devil hates humanity and has no power over it at all - other than to mislead, lie to or distract, it makes life sometimes interesting. The freak is just a Jinn, small, tiny and annoying, and when compared to a force as massive and unimaginable that created the universe, life, energy, humanity, souls, and a few p*issed off Jinn, etc it pales into nothing. The Devil equates to the size of a poodle that tries to trip you over or lead you to fall down a manhole. But, being the trickster it is, it can only influence those who have no idea of how to tap into the power to recognise it, and make it get lost - and that unfortunately equates to around 999 out of every 1000 individuals for the moment. The Devil likes to big itself up and does quite well at the charade. But once you realise that it wasn't an angel, give it no respect nor fear at all, nor sympathy nor care, then it hates you all the more than it does already.

So let it.

And just remember that every single wrong choice you have ever made which has led you to suffer or you have caused others to suffer by, all came from 'IT' - and always will do. It laughs at your misery. There's only one way to reduce those errors, and its quite easy to do, and eventually makes life better - even at its end. We all have free will, and were granted free will so that we will get what we deserve in the full knowledge that our work has brought the end result we get - just like any good or bad employee or someone who disobeys the law. In this case, the laws are now fixed - as anyone who tests them typically finds out.

Which religion is that from? That the devil wasnt an Angel he was a Jin?

I've heard from catholic/christian that he WAS infact an Angel, and he was banished from heaven because God wanted everyone to have free-will and the devil thought they shouldnt.

And to be fair to him, i wouldnt bow to someone who's inferior to me either.

Look it up on-line. Cut/paste some of the names. Anyway, that's my bit done on here. I'll let everyone else argue it whilst their Qareen's do their job.

I think the simple answer is that NONE of it is true, no God and no Devil simple!!

The fact that every religion has different gods and abide by different rules, and that the devil in Christianity was a angel but in others was a jin and possibly something different in other religions, says it all really!!!!!

My theory - The devil is known for being evil and would also be unfair therefore punish everyone in hell even if they don't deserve it.

More questions for somebody into religion. If you belong to a religion how do you know that it is the correct religion? There are so many, and each one has a few sects too
And how you do know you're following the correct rules, All the main religions' holy books or guides were written many years ago, when translated lose accuracy. Even after translation(or in old style english) the content can interpreted differently from one individual to the next.

For me the good thing about religion is that it's about basic morals and values of yourself. Minus the detailed rules.

Not even so much if you're following the rules set by God;

But has anyone even thought that God could be the Evil one, and Lucifer the good one?

Not in terms of Devil worshipping but if you look at OLD OLD religion, all the Holy wars, the way the bible contradicts itself in every other page..The way he supposedly created mankind, but subjects us to shit like child molesters, murderers, earthquakes, monsoons .

If God created all of that, think of all the people that has died by his hand? How many people have died from the Devils hands?

If there is a heaven and a hell, who's to say that God wasnt in hell, escaped, threw the Devil out of heaven and put him in Hell and took his place? then made all of this BS up about him to make him look like the evil person?

The reason i dont believe in it all is because there is NO proof whatsoever that any of that exists. You're taking the word of a BOOK (PEN AND PAPER) on it. That was written so many years ago its unreal. I think if you actually devote yourself to it and stick by it no matter what, then that's a wasted life.

Still nobody has provided an answer as to why the devil would punish you for disobeying God.

Correct. The old and new testaments do contradict throughout because the Shaytaan got to the scribes who wrote it all decades and centuries after the fact. Various gospels were binned and missed out. Others modified. For example, Jesus never preached the holy trinity. That was added later. The Qur'an corrects them both, is protected from alteration, was written in the final prophet's lifetime, and is both bibles back to back - if you read it. It is nothing new, but with the errors, parables and contradictions completely removed. There is not a single contradiction within it. Read it, and the Hadith alongside it, then you'll see it all laid out clear as a bell. Then again, the favourite instrument of the Devil (Iblis) is the bell, and when you realise there's a bell in every church steeple? Then, if you also come to accept that it was Judas who was crucified as punishment for his betrayal, not Jesus, then we get into the thick of it - especially as Jesus preached only prayer to God, not to him himself - as he was a man - and never called himself the son of god - then it gets yet even more challenging to what we've been blindly taught. If you pray to a man, you thus pray to an idol, which is not what any prophet taught. The best way of selling a lie is to have 80% truth, 20% lie, and unfortunately, the bibles have been changed ridiculously and is why the christian church is now being destroyed. A long-term investment by the Shaytaan... all pretty logical when you look at it really. If you want the truth and the information you seek, you have to read the books, then make a decision. You cannot go from gossip, hearsay nor established dogma. Read the books, then argue it. Otherwise, its just scrabbling around in the dark. The best versions are (for English use):

King James Version of the Christian Bible (old and new testaments - even though the original manuscripts have strangely since been destroyed).

The English translation of The Holy Quran by Pickthall - even though it it not the perfect Quran (you have to learn Arabic to understand that) it's the best introduction for non-Arabic speakers, and the original Qur'an has never been altered since being written, not even by one syllable.

If you want to read The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, that's up to you. Just be careful what you do with it. I found out the hard way, and is why I leave it well alone today.

Regarding pen and paper and things being written years ago: a death warrant is only ink and paper, but it carries power to take a life. And as for things written years ago: human nature never changes and never has. Love, envy, hate, greed, fear, pity, death, birth, etc - they all remain the same, regardless of wearing animal skins or a space suit.

What's so bad about the satanic bible? like what did you mean by be careful with what you do with it.


There's a huge difference between a death warrant and living your life by a book that was written so many years ago, so many different interpretations.

I agree it has similarities, the bible has been the cause of ALOT of people killed. Catholic inquisition, Holy war in Islam, well over 70 million killed.

So why would you believe in something so strongly, that has killed more people than Hitler?

And the Quran is the islamic bible yeah? I appreciate your research there, but i'd sooner shoot myself in the face then read that book of terroristic ideology.

Another prime example, all of that islam4uk shit that's been bombing us..for what?

I hate how people do some really bad shit and then justify it with "GOD TOLD ME TO"

We're all the same, religious or non-religious, we are ALL capable of some type of evil, if pushed in the right way. Except, religious people are more quick to judge and deny before justifying their actions through "Holy work"

Religion is a 'way of life' and everybody has that, as I've probably said elsewhere BUT as for orthodox religions and 'faiths of mass belief' I think the rules are man made, although may be inspired initially by 'prophets and wise persons' I'm not sure that accounts for evolution of the soul and our position in the world today.
To me and my logic, whatever the religion, in essence, the TRUTH has to be the same for all. I don't believe in heaven and hell, just that we create our own heaven or hell whilst living on this Earth Plane.
I believe our earth life is just a moment in eternity and I know there's life after physical death 'cos I've been there enough times and have snippets of memories of some past lives and have met in this life a few people that I knew in other lives.... erm..... I don't need a straightjacket either I'm harmless
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Dear Bananaman,

Ok, now, look… In all fairness… As nobody can logically test what’s been said in the Bible (or in the Qur’an for that matter), perhaps except for some historical facts, it’s obvious that faith in what is above and what happens after you die is a mystical matter and not a logical one… Therefore, to answer your primary question, nobody can actually tell if the devil is gonna punish the sinful or not, or even if there’s a heaven or a hell… There is no humanly logical answer. So contradicting or not, that is not really the point… The point is nobody can logically tell what happens afterwards, how evil and how good act (as one’s evil may be another’s good, and at any given time you may as well hurt another human being without even knowing that you have or intending to do so) and so on.

I have written a big rant on this, but have decided not to put it all here, because what I said in the first paragraph pretty much covers the answer to your question. It sort of follows what MissJB said, but not quite… It’s not necessarily a question of books contradicting and so on, but more a question of not being able to logically prove the existence or non-existence of the after world and what happens exactly after you die (as there are many things beyond logic).

If we are to believe in particular books (or in parts of them), then that is our own choice and it surely cannot be predicated as THE LOGICAL TRUTH, but our personal truth, the one we choose to believe in.

I am not here to question the Bible or the Qur’an, to say which one is right and which one is wrong… Perhaps in the end it’s a question of instincts, fears, beliefs, what you’ve been taught so far and so on. Or maybe it’s more… Maybe it’s just an internal thing.

I’d say more, but I think this pretty much says what I think of this question, and religion is always so logically debatable that I could end up writing some book, questioning something that cannot really be explained in logical terms…

In all religions there are things that could be seen as being against nature itself, like, par example, the commandments saying not to “covet”, covet meaning desire/wish.

One could wonder if respecting this commandment could be seen as against nature itself, because “you do not choose your feelings, only what you do about them.” So, see? It seems to be against your very own nature (something that you do not choose, but live with) so you‘d break this commandment by default, even if you do not want to (free will). Even if you punish yourself when you desire something you shouldn’t, it does not mean the desire won’t still be there as you don‘t choose to desire something, it just happens. All you can do is NOT GO FOR IT. So, basically, that means you should repent for your very own nature… Therefore, in our logical way of thinking, the term “covet” could be a misinterpreted translation or more. Or you could choose to repent for the very fact that you exist.

In the end, perhaps it matters what you choose to believe in and do with your life, and it could be more of a matter of instincts rather than what you’ve been taught so far. A good question could be: “what does a child believe in, before they’re taught about religion and so on?”

I can't argue with anyone who hasn't read what they are trying to argue, so that's my contributions finished on this thread. Have fun. x

Dave Allen was a drinker...! Then again, so was Lord Charles the puppet - worked by Ray Alan, so what do I know....!!! x

That's my point exactly, for something that has been set in stone for years and years..there are no definitive answers to certain questions. I just fail to see why someone would choose to live their life on something that's so questionable.

Though, im not hating on religion because if anything, false or true, the basic sets of religion IS good for people. That's something you cant debate on good intentions.


I feel the way i do about God and i dont believe in it all for one second, but i have even thought about going to church in my darkest hour. I live about 5 minutes away from it, and i did feel drawn to it but never went because for me hypocrites and liars are just the same, and i fucking hate liars.

So i guess it leaves you at a point where, you can stay as far away from it as you want but it's so inbred in our society that when you REALLY need someone, the church is what you think of. Or, maybe it isnt inbred in our society and you do get a 'call' when you're in need the most. Who knows?

Reincarnation, there's been stories of that and i find it intriguing but its hard to really research it without hitting road blocks where a mum or dad is trying to earn money from all the publicity so they tell the kid to say this, say that, etc.