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Home >> Anything else >> Jade Goody -
26.03.2009, 21:44 quote
| rocketgirl wrote: |
Sounds like sour grapes to me.  |
No, I was just following the argument. The money she earnt was irrelevant when the discussion is about whether she should have been in a position to earn it.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| And Jade did have a talent - she had a talent for getting noticed and keeping people's interest up. |
That would be the talent for marketing displayed by her publicist, who has undoubtedly earnt their position by working hard.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| You are saying she had no right to become famous because she had no discernable talent worthy of your approval? |
No. I am saying she had not earnt it. She had the right if she had earnt the position. And its not just that she had 'no discernable talent worthy of your approval?'. Its that she had no discernable talent at all.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
Hhhhmmm, good job not all celebrities/film stars/pop stars/famous-for-doing-naff-all-except-get-their-face-on-telly are reliant on just baggie's and raven's approval, the tabloids would be a bit boring and thin, and there'd be naff all on telly.  |
This is where Cat's new theory comes in. You must be intentionally missing the point so that we get frustrated and give up, allowing you to claim victory. There is no other explanation for such a statement as yours...we are not saying for one second that we should approve of everybody who is famous.
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26.03.2009, 21:44 quote
| jeggae wrote: |
| Talent isnt always a requirement for being famous or a celebrity nowadays. There's been loads of instances where people have been famous for a day, week, month, year and then disappear. Sometimes its just being in the right place at the right time.
Talent is probably subjective and unquantifiable. According to my dad not many musicians had any talent after 1949. According to him modern day pop stars had no talent at all. The monkeys were second rate actors who became world famous at something they had little talent in. They produced great music even if it wasnt them that was playing the instruments [apparently]. Jade was famous for [not sure]  , but it was enough to make her a celebrity and people did like reading about her.
Jimmy 'Five Bellies' Gardner became a celebrity for a few years just because he was Gazza's mate and could drink a lot of beer He probably made a bob or two out of it.
Wish I could become famous for a while and make a quick million or two |
BTW, I bet I could drink more beer then five bellies
26.03.2009, 21:47 quote
She deserved the chance because she took it.
THAT IS COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT.
Whether she took it or not, she did not deserve it because she was untalented. Whether opportunity knocked or not, it should not have knocked on her door.
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26.03.2009, 21:50 quote
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| I've read and re-read........No one has missed the point at all, they have simply disagreed with Cat.
I had a boyfriend once years ago, if I ever disagreed with summat he said he'd respond "You've obviously missed the point!" while stamping his little foot. So lets get this straight, and correct me if I am wrong: The point is ---- You think that Jade did not deserve to be famous because she was talentless. Yes? Or have I got that wrong? Response that you think is missing the point: Talentless or talented - she got famous simple as, and yes she deserved it cuz opportunity knocked and she grabbed it, good for her. Hence, no point missed, just simply disagreed with. |
Alice have grown to love you over the last few days .........
26.03.2009, 21:53 quote
Baggie!!! It is you who is being deliberately obtuse now, stop playing silly pissing contest games! Yes ok you win you can pee higher than i can!! Happy now???
Re-read your last post -- YOUR OPINION that she did not "earn" her fame and had "no talent at all".
~Others may well disagree, it's all relative. SO NO POINT MISSED, SIMPLY DISAGREED WITH.
You will only accept that your point has not been missed if we all say "Yeah you are right, little bitch was stooooopid and talentless and had no right to be plastered all over our tellies and papers cuz she didn't earn it" ????
That's not being pedantic, its just being bloody-minded and demanding to be agreed with.
Anyways, what I know about her I have learned either in this thread or from snatches of news just prior to her untimely death, so I am really only playing devil's advocate here.
So there.
26.03.2009, 21:54 quote
Why did she get famous?
Because she deserved it.
Why did she deserve it?
Because she got it.
Why did she get it?
Because she deserved it.
The argument is circular and therefore redundant.
_________________
26.03.2009, 21:56 quote
| baggiebhoy wrote: |
| She deserved the chance because she took it.
THAT IS COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT. [color=red]Whether she took it or not, she did not deserve it because she was untalented. [color=blue]Whether opportunity knocked or not, it should not have knocked on her door. |
Why not??????????????
Yep. sounds like sour grapes to me....
26.03.2009, 21:59 quote
| baggiebhoy wrote: |
| Why did she get famous?
Because she deserved it. Why did she deserve it? Because she got it. Why did she get it? Because she deserved it. The argument is circular and therefore redundant. |
Puzzles me why she was famous.
But she probably wont be the first or last, so something you'll have to get used to Baggie.
Its the way it is now.
26.03.2009, 22:00 quote
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| Anyways, what I know about her I have learned either in this thread or from snatches of news just prior to her untimely death, so I am really only playing devil's advocate here. |
So let me get this straight.
You are taking this stance and defending it so hard based on what other people have said and the news coverage she received prior to her tragic death.
There is mob mentality distilled into its purist form.
No sour grapes, just a general distaste for society in its current state.
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26.03.2009, 22:04 quote
| baggiebhoy wrote: |
| Why did she get famous?
Because she deserved it. Why did she deserve it? Because she got it. Why did she get it? Because she deserved it. The argument is circular and therefore redundant. |
No one said she deserved it, as in a reward for summat earned.
It was noted that she simply was in the right place at the right time, opportunity knocked and she grabbed it.
You dont need to be talented for that to happen.
I rather think the word deserve comes into play when she was dying - as in "poor girl deserves to raise cash for her kids" - and yes deserving, as a kind of compensation for getting terminal cancer, poor thing. And now she is dead she deserves to be thought well of, simply because its humane to do so. (dont speak ill of the dead, unless its hitler, and all that jazz!) - unless one knew her personally and is determined never to forgive some slight.....
You make it circular if you like, but I would say that is you who is missing the point.
26.03.2009, 22:06 quote
| baggiebhoy wrote: |
| Whether opportunity knocked or not, it should not have knocked on her door. |
lol this is where u lost Andrew.
..and u claim she is "stupid" ..ok does ur definition of "stupid" or being "an idiot" constitute a being who was confident, cheerful and had a happy soul??? this is the way she was born, so was she born wrong??? lol theres terrible bigotry in your posts man and it doesnt have to be "im on this side, that side" bullshit, your points are flawed by the mere fact that u yourself do believe in a very much related celebrity status.... footballers!!! most are regarded the same way as u would jade... so relatively, the same entertainment that is rendered by a footballer doing a thousand kick-ups, is the same entertainment rendered by jade and her antics lol ...you follow football religiously and footballers are some of the most chowderheaded 'celebs' ever!!! ....ur argument becomes null for that simple fact.... orrrr maybe ur cognitive dissonance is affected by ur relationship with cat but ...as aforementioned, ur passion for football dissipates any preconceived ideas u have for "stupid people" lol aaahhh marry it, lemme stop man , prob typed up a couple bullshit but whateva man u get the point lol
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francine needn some attention
wilma givn that thank u smooch
ha no im not pinchin lois' tig ol bitties
betty wonderin how the marry she ended up here
26.03.2009, 22:10 quote
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| No one said she deserved it, as in a reward for summat earned. It was noted that she simply was in the right place at the right time, opportunity knocked and she grabbed it. |
The point we are debating is whether she deserved it. Nobody is debating whether she grabbed it or not.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| You dont need to be talented for that to happen. |
No shit.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| I rather think the word deserve comes into play when she was dying - as in "poor girl deserves to raise cash for her kids" - and yes deserving, as a kind of compensation for getting terminal cancer, poor thing. |
Not what the argument I am putting forth is about.
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| And now she is dead she deserves to be thought well of, simply because its humane to do so. (dont speak ill of the dead, unless its hitler, and all that jazz!) - unless one knew her personally and is determined never to forgive some slight..... |
So we should lie all the time about the dead, and say they were brilliant and wonderful even if they were complete arseholes?
| rocketgirl wrote: |
| You make it circular if you like, but I would say that is you who is missing the point. |
You don't even know what the argument is about, and your last two posts have made that clear.
_________________
26.03.2009, 22:12 quote
| baggiebhoy wrote: | ||
So let me get this straight. You are taking this stance and defending it so hard based on what other people have said and the news coverage she received prior to her tragic death. There is mob mentality distilled into its purist form. No sour grapes, just a general distaste for society in its current state. |
How else would I form an opinion? I did not know her personally.
And how did you glean your knowledge of this young lady?
Did you grow up with her? Go to school with her? Were her confidante and bosum buddy?
Or did you watch/read about her on big brother, in the papers, on the telly, on these forums etc?
If I felt you were right and others here were wrong, I would be the first to say so and take my stance in your corner.
I thought you would know by now I am not a mob-following sheep when it comes to controversy on here!
26.03.2009, 22:18 quote
| jeggae wrote: | ||
Puzzles me why she was famous. But she probably wont be the first or last, so something you'll have to get used to Baggie. Its the way it is now. |
that i can agree with
now can we just let the fucking argument rest ffs
it is COMPLETELY 100% clear that the two opinions are now going to mesh and all that is happening is the argument is being repeated endlessly and the debating turning into personal attack which is the reason why i stopped bothering in the first place
so lets just stop before it turns into an all out slanging match
26.03.2009, 22:22 quote
No I think the point you are focused on is the matter of deserving fame, others have been discussing other issues around her fame.
People are not missing your point, they are simply bringing other stuff into the equation because they don't agree with your point.
You havent said why you think being talentless (in your opinion) does not deserve fame?
The way I understand it, you or I could have applied to join big brother, but we didn't - at least I didn't cuz i was not aware of it's existance - but Jade applied, got selected and bingo....the rest is history.
WHY is that such a problem for you??? That's what I don't understand. You seem incensed that this whippersnapper of a nobody got their face on telly, got a good publicist, had the bad luck to get sick and die, and made a lot of money for her kids in the process....why does it bother you so badly??
So what?
There is no law that says "Thou shalt not get famous if thou does not earn it or have a talent approved of by baggie and cat" - which in a nutshell *is* what you are intimating, whether you want to admit it or not, that is the bare bones of your argument.
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