Well 'obviously' I'm stone cold single.

Unlike many people my age (and in this location) I don't go on a all night binge and try to bang everything with a pulse. I prefer getting to know someone intimately before deciding whether or not I like them.

But this comes with a problem, it's unbelievably easy to fall into the "let's just be friends" trap, and it's becoming more frequent. I've tried telling them directly that I'm interested in being more than friends but that backfires.

Is there any way to know about someone without falling into this pit? Having friends is great (there's no doubt about that), but having someone with you is a desire that's turning uncontrollable.

Its great taking your time to get to know someobody, but just because you want to get to know them first does not mean that you cannot flirt and be a bit suggestive etc. I think some guys tend to forget about flirting and end up making the woman feel like an undesireable friend. Even though you are just getting to know them, still flirt, be suggestive (with humour) and enjoy that, otherwise the friend trap awaits

suedehed wrote:

still flirt, be suggestive (with humour) and enjoy that, otherwise the friend trap awaits

That's the problem, I DO flirt. I've even played games where someone flirts with you excessively and you see how long you can keep a straight face.

However, I live in an area that's 'prominent' in screwing with anyone and sometimes 'anything'. I have heard rumoured statistics that this place is quite high on the under-age pregnancy scale (which by the looks of it seems true). I can't afford to keep a car on the road during the next about 6-12 months (by which time I'll financially stable-ish) so going further afield to the nearest city is out of the question, unless train and bus costs contradict it's track record and suddenly drop.

Flirting is extremely common and the only place to know someone around here is night clubs, parties etc. So they'll be totally trashed. You can't judge if someone likes you and vice versa if they've drunk a months worth of booze in 15 minutes (I was guilty of the same crime barely a year ago so I can't complain).

There are some things which have somewhat came useful in the past. Which is making them feel fantastic about their paranoia's, worries, hates etc and helping them with their problems. But in about 70% of cases that brings two outcomes:
1. They don't believe a word and it causes heated arguments (Apparently compliments don't go down well in some people).
2. Very few want my help. They can happily spew their guts to the nearest stranger but somehow I feel as if I've been branded as totally useless.

So here it's abnormal not to flirt, why they do that with total strangers I honestly don't know. Perhaps I need a change in scenery. Something a little less, violently alcoholic.

themanwhoknew wrote:

Flirting is extremely common and the only place to know someone around here is night clubs, parties etc. So they'll be totally trashed. You can't judge if someone likes you and vice versa if they've drunk a months worth of booze in 15 minutes (I was guilty of the same crime barely a year ago so I can't complain).

Wrong move. If they are totally trashed, they are not capable of making proper judgements and waking up next to someone you would never normally find attractive in any way, shape or form is common. Those one night stands never go any further.

themanwhoknew wrote:

There are some things which have somewhat came useful in the past. Which is making them feel fantastic about their paranoia's, worries, hates etc and helping them with their problems. But in about 70% of cases that brings two outcomes: 1. They don't believe a word and it causes heated arguments (Apparently compliments don't go down well in some people). 2. Very few want my help. They can happily spew their guts to the nearest stranger but somehow I feel as if I've been branded as totally useless.

Outcome 3 is usually if you are successful, they feel more confident about getting together with the absolute shit that they've had their eye on for a while and you are then out of the picture entirely.

Been there, done that, got so many tee shirts that I could start my own shop.

themanwhoknew wrote:

So here it's abnormal not to flirt, why they do that with total strangers I honestly don't know. Perhaps I need a change in scenery. Something a little less, violently alcoholic.

Move if you think it will change things but as a single man who has lived in many towns and cities from East Kent to Aberdeen, I can tell you it's going to be no different no matter where you go in the UK. The attitude you mention of is national.

If you're going to move at all, make it Europe or further where you'll meet people with different attitudes. Only the older generation in the UK have the old attitudes that would match your needs. I would say Sweden, Holland or Germany would best suit you.

The old "friend zone trap" you gotta love this topic

So you're considering relocating? I'm with Tryst on that one. There are things about you that trigger those "let's just be friends" responses from women you approach. Regardless of where you go, you'll get the same feedback because you'll keep on doing the things that got you there in the first place.

I replied to a situation similar to yours on my website. This guy found that women considered him not to be a "fun guy" and kept on getting stock in the "friends zone".

Getting back to you, I agree with Tryst that you shouldn't approach women when they're drunk. How about going to bars or parties early so the interaction isn't tainted by alcohol?

You'll find if they enjoy your company, it'll be easier for them to remember you. As the conversation progress and it's time to exchange phone numbers for a later meetup, how about playing a bit hard to get. Be the guy that's not sure if it's a good idea to stay in touch because she'll probably get wasted that night and won't remember a thing (you). You'll probably have a bit of fun with that one as she'll try to convince you otherwise. (If you overdo it, she'll just say fine and not want to exchange contact info)
Keep a very playful and teasing tone as you do this.

Another think to consider. Approaching women during the day. The idea can be frightening to some but why not? Not knowing your lifestyle and how your town is, they must be places people gather: Coffee shops, shopping centers, parks...

Also, I recommend not playing the nice guy who wants to "help" after listening to their stories, especially when first meeting a woman. Like most people, women want to have fun when they go out. The last they want is talk about their worries, bills, stressful jobs. It'll just make them feel worse about the situation and the person to embody those negative emotions will be YOU.

Try talking about things that are fun, light and will still engage her in some way so she can contribute to the conversation thread.

Also, telling women explicitly that you want to be more than friends will freak them out. Whether looking to become more intimate with somebody or wanting more than friendship, it has to be suggested and understood.
It's done by the way a man looks at a woman, touches her, makes suggestive comments, teases. So as mentioned by Suedehed, be more suggestive.

To recap, don't be her therapist, be sexually implicit in your language, mannerism, and playfulness yet respectful. Approach women during the day and go to parties early and leave early.

Let us know how things develop!

Mick
http://www.micklolekonda.com
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Be The Man To Give Her Butterflies

I love reading guys posts, trying to claim they know how women tick and what they want to hear

So basically what your saying is for him to change his whole way of thinking and personality to get the girl, yeah !!!

BIG MISTAKE

Just a womans point of view, but hey what do I know

Hey man,

I've just written a whole piece on the purpose of intent when talking to the opposite love, ill just reference it here. Then i want to talk about other places to meet girls. Bare with me could get long.

Stating interest early

Its good that you have the balls to state your intent, a lot of guys don't so good on you. Its also good that you want to build rapport and get to know girls, but you need to maintain tension throughout the things ill mention below will help this. It's super important to convey intent right of the bat and these can be done through: teasing, statements and touching and maintaining this while you get to know her.

Teasing
Sarcasm is the art of saying something nice whilst meaning something mean. Teasing is saying something mean and really meaning "i like you". Do this straight away, it gives the conversation an edge. get used to teasing right away, it is just the natural way to flirt.

Cues and statements of interest
I look for cues that a girl is interested in me (look for tossing back the hair, scratching the wrist) then i will give a statement of interest. This is basically an acknowledgment that she is attracted to you and you are in turn attracted to her something as simple as "wow, you like philosophy, id never have guessed that about you, your not just a pretty face" Little things like this will help her know subtly that you like her. Just dont say "your hot" or "i like your eyes" try to be genuine and find something about her that you are actually attracted by.

Touching
This is obviously mostly important in the off line world but get used to touching girls. This means while you are first getting to know them. This includes hugging (in a playful way) arm round the shoulder while speaking, hi fives etc. This gets her used to you touching her. This is so important and a lot of guys i give advice to and teach dont do it, it means later on when your meeting up with her or going on a date and you go for the hug it will seem weird and in-congruent.

Where to meet girls

OK, i think your knee jerk response to what im about to type is either going to be "no way" or "how?"

Meet girls in the day time!

Honestly, it is so much more genuine than any of the games that are played in a club and is a really great way of getting to really know somebody.

There are different ways of starting conversations in the day time, which can be as simple as asking the time then moving into a conversation or being direct which is my favorite! (this takes balls)

If i see a girl who is on her own that i like the look of in a shopping center, coffee shop, clothes store, street I will walk up to her and compliment her on something i find genuinely attractive

"Hi, this is going to seem really random but i noticed you from across the street, i think your style is amazing and id be kicking myself if i didnt come over and at least say hi"

I believe in making baby steps though, so start by asking girls your attracted to the time and build up from there. If you need anymore practical advice on approaching girls in the day time let me know

Chris

oh my good lord .......... thats it i give up with this site now ......

Hey Annemarie!

Interested to know which part of my post your referring to and maybe i can clarify. If its about the first section on intent i bet you yourself have been in many situations with guys where there is no spark, i am merely giving some practical advice on avoiding conversational topics that lead to friendship.

If its in reference to approaching girls in the day time, i think you would be flattered if a guy approached out the blue complimented you on something genuine and proceeded to have an interesting conversation.

I'm sure your practical advice would be centered around "be yourself, be confident, be a nice guy" its funny how many times i hear this and how useless and throw away it is as a statement. Starting a conversation is the gateway to conveying true personality and identity.

Women dont know women and men dont know men.

bemis wrote:

Hey Annemarie! Interested to know which part of my post your referring to and maybe i can clarify. If its about the first section on intent i bet you yourself have been in many situations with guys where there is no spark, i am merely giving some practical advice on avoiding conversational topics that lead to friendship. If its in reference to approaching girls in the day time, i think you would be flattered if a guy approached out the blue complimented you on something genuine and proceeded to have an interesting conversation. I'm sure your practical advice would be centered around "be yourself, be confident, be a nice guy" its funny how many times i hear this and how useless and throw away it is as a statement. Starting a conversation is the gateway to conveying true personality and identity. Women dont know women and men dont know men.

only one part of that statement is fact .... be yourself, if your not confident or nice, you can't pretend to be ........... end off

BTW id overlooked "dating coaches" advice. This guy does actually know what hes talking about. Props

That's not true.

Think of something you weren't good at or confident with ie driving. The more you do it the more competent you become and the more confident you become as a result.

I played in a band and the first few times i went on stage it frightened the life out of me. After 10 or so shows i was relaxed and chilled on stage. Just another example.

This is from my own personal experience, the idea of speaking to a girl frightened the life out of me at one stage in my life. But the more i pushed myself and tried i eventually found this "confidence" you speak of, its just "situational comfort".

And my band sucked so i had every right to be nervous

annmarie5988 wrote:

if your not confident or nice, you can't pretend to be ........... end off

Sorry AM, but you know as well as I do that the statement you made isn't quite accurate. Isn't it the abusive ones that seem like the real charmers to begin with? Are they not pretending to be nice just to lure you in?

We all modify our behaviour to suit the moment. We behave differently at work than we do when we are out with our friends, especially when we have customer facing jobs. There have been times when I have worked as a security guard and had to smile and be polite when I would really like to rip their head off and give it back rectally. I have had to bite my tongue and curb my reactions when verbally or even physically assaulted in my work. Had I been out with my friends for the evening, my reactions would be quite different. Although I detest violence, I am not a wimp by any means and will not be abused either verbally or physically, I can give as good as I get.

Some can extend their ability to modify behaviour to increase their chances with women, even to the point of appearing to be the exact opposite of what they really are.

What is being suggested here is not to try to be something you are not. The OP said he was a flirt and it was both natural and expected in his community, what has been suggested is a variation of venues rather than personality. Also still flirting but not with drunks who have very little inhibitions or reasoning ability.

There is far too much anylisis of what to do to get a date! What happens when you get blown out because you have followed a multitude of advice and completely turned youself into someone different?

In the past I have dated girls from all different walks of life from a Dentist to a catwalk model, i've always found that by being yourself is by far the best option! Keep your description of yourself honest and realistic, If you enjoy a steak dinner and a good laugh go for it! Most of all if you can make someone laugh you are on a good footing.
_________________
This guy is liscensed to chill, and thrill, but the opportunities to thrill are rather less than anticipated!!!!

Hi Eccles,

I agree with you to an extent. But i have an issue with telling someone to be himself. Personally i think this is such a throw away statement and i can guarantee Themanwhoknew would have heard this 1000 times.

The truth is, it's not practical advice. I know because i used to hear it all the time from my girl friends, but the truth is "do what you always do, and get what you always get" if somethings not working for you in any aspect of life, not just dating you should either embrace the situation or look to improve in a practical way. The fact is simply by approaching girls you will have more dates, is that compromising who you are as and individual...i don't think so.

Being honest however is important, and its about learning how to convey your best qualities rather then manufacturing new ones. You obviously convey your best traits well given your dating success you referenced.